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crimbo
20th December 2008, 09:16 AM
i look on RAW converters as similar to developers in the old wet darkroom days - they all do much the same thing but are all different.

So which is your preferred RAW converter?
Is there a converter that works best/worst with Olympus RAW files?

rich s
20th December 2008, 09:45 AM
i look on RAW converters as similar to developers in the old wet darkroom days - they all do much the same thing but are all different.

So which is your preferred RAW converter?
Is there a converter that works best/worst with Olympus RAW files?

As a straightforward RAW converter, after downloading and using trials of most (Bibble, Silkypix etc) - I went for Capture One 4. Interface is very straightforward and easy to use, & conversion is very quick. It also seems to me to give the closest colour to Oly files without using Studio.

For general file management and most other editing I use ACDSee Pro.

Ian
20th December 2008, 11:22 AM
I really recommend Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and the latest version 2.2 has some cool additions, like camera profiles.

Ian

tlove
20th December 2008, 11:50 AM
I really recommend Adobe Photoshop Lightroom and the latest version 2.2 has some cool additions, like camera profiles.

Ian

That's very interesting Ian - I've got version 1 of Lightroom (latest version 1 that is), and thought it was brilliant, but the downside for me is that it stripped out Exif info when I saved my images (e.g for sending them in to this site) :(. It's probably because I'm doing something wrong, and although I've looked thoroughly I can't find a way of retaining it. As a consequence, I don't use it too often now. I like the look of version 2 but a) I can't afford it (not allowed - not even an upgrade), and b) if I could afford it I'm wary of the Exif info thing.

Ian
20th December 2008, 12:31 PM
That's very interesting Ian - I've got version 1 of Lightroom (latest version 1 that is), and thought it was brilliant, but the downside for me is that it stripped out Exif info when I saved my images (e.g for sending them in to this site) :(. It's probably because I'm doing something wrong, and although I've looked thoroughly I can't find a way of retaining it. As a consequence, I don't use it too often now. I like the look of version 2 but a) I can't afford it (not allowed - not even an upgrade), and b) if I could afford it I'm wary of the Exif info thing.

Which version are you running (1.4?) - I don't have problems with retaining exif when I export... I have 1.4 and 2.2 on different machines.

Ian

terryw
20th December 2008, 12:45 PM
In your trials you don't mention the Adobe DNG converter. I understood that Adobe developed it with the intention of it becoming a universal converter and with the latest 5.2 version it covers a fair range of diifferent makes and models.

Does Light Room not use the .dng converter, or am I missing something here?

Terry

crimbo
20th December 2008, 01:20 PM
Okay so one for C1 4 and one for LR


any others for developing the RAW file prior to PP?

tlove
20th December 2008, 01:23 PM
Which version are you running (1.4?) - I don't have problems with retaining exif when I export... I have 1.4 and 2.2 on different machines.

Ian

I'm running 1.4 (1.4.1 to be exact, with Camera Raw 4.4.1). As I suspected, it's obviously something I'm doing then when exporting my images as jpegs. When I've got time, I might finally get it sorted :o

Oh - forgot to say earlier that, given the fact that I can't use Lightroom (:D), I usually access my raw images through Adobe Bridge, do any tweaking with the Adobe raw (dng) converter, then open into Photoshop CS3.

Pete Riley
20th December 2008, 02:01 PM
I find that Rawtherapee does a good a job as any and it's free. It also has an algorithm designed for Olympus as a choice in the set up.

Jim Ford
20th December 2008, 02:29 PM
Do any of the raw developers other than ACR have the facility to adjust highlights by holding down the alt button and clicking on the exposure button? With ACR this highlights the highlights to enable you to adjust the exposure to recover highlight detail. You can also do the same to recover shadow detail.

I find this a very useful facility that I wouldn't like to lose with another raw developer.

BTW - it's 'raw', not 'RAW'. Raw is not an acronym like JPEG or TIFF, so shouldn't be capitalised. Raw doesn't stand for anything and is just what it says - unprocessed.

Jim

crimbo
20th December 2008, 02:47 PM
I find that Rawtherapee does a good a job as any and it's free. It also has an algorithm designed for Olympus as a choice in the set up.

Mmm looks interesting...couldnt find the Oly algorhythm

Gwyver
20th December 2008, 04:14 PM
That's very interesting Ian - I've got version 1 of Lightroom (latest version 1 that is), and thought it was brilliant, but the downside for me is that it stripped out Exif info when I saved my images (e.g for sending them in to this site) :(. It's probably because I'm doing something wrong, and although I've looked thoroughly I can't find a way of retaining it. As a consequence, I don't use it too often now. I like the look of version 2 but a) I can't afford it (not allowed - not even an upgrade), and b) if I could afford it I'm wary of the Exif info thing.

Thea,
The Export Functions in Lightroom version 2 (Library Module) allow you to specify whether or not you want to strip out the (EXIF) metadata - and I can confirm that if you choose not to "Minimise embedded Metadata" it leaves it intact in the JPGs or whatever format you save to.

There are also several user-created Export plug-ins readily available which allow you even more precise control of which sub-sets of metadata to retain. Go to the Lightroom forum at
http://www.lightroomforums.net/index.php
and have a look for further links. (I think some of the well-known plug-ins are also compatible with LR 1.4.1 - though I only started with LR @ version 2.1 so I can't confirm this.)

HTH

snaarman
20th December 2008, 04:55 PM
With ACR this highlights the highlights to enable you to adjust the exposure to recover highlight detail. You can also do the same to recover shadow detail.
Jim

Oooh, I didn't realise it that !! Just tried it...

Pete

PaulE
20th December 2008, 05:12 PM
Oooh, I didn't realise it that !! Just tried it...

Pete


Nope me neither :o Thanks for the tip Jim I think that will come in very handy in future :)

tlove
20th December 2008, 05:23 PM
Thea,
The Export Functions in Lightroom version 2 (Library Module) allow you to specify whether or not you want to strip out the (EXIF) metadata - and I can confirm that if you choose not to "Minimise embedded Metadata" it leaves it intact in the JPGs or whatever format you save to.

There are also several user-created Export plug-ins readily available which allow you even more precise control of which sub-sets of metadata to retain. Go to the Lightroom forum at
http://www.lightroomforums.net/index.php
and have a look for further links. (I think some of the well-known plug-ins are also compatible with LR 1.4.1 - though I only started with LR @ version 2.1 so I can't confirm this.)

HTH

Thank you very much Chris - I'll have a look later on today :):)!

Knew it was probably something I was doing that I shouldn't, or vice versa :o:o! Looks like we're all learning something today!

Thanks again

ianc
20th December 2008, 07:00 PM
I used to use CaptureOne 4 which works fine but then I downloaded the trial of Aperture and fell in love with it. Great user interface and quality results so the credit card took a hit. I would recommend anyone who is uses a Mac to give it a go.

Ian C.

StephenL
20th December 2008, 07:16 PM
Lightroom 2 for me as well, but I'm still learning it!

crimbo
20th December 2008, 09:35 PM
So is LR a different RAW developer than ACR?

Jim Ford
20th December 2008, 11:01 PM
So is LR a different RAW developer than ACR?

I'm sure I've read somewhere that both Photoshop and Lightroom have the same underlying ACR engine.

Jim

Pete Riley
20th December 2008, 11:08 PM
Crimbo.
Open rawtherapee, select preferences,then image processing,look for demosaicing algorithm and set VNG 4.

StephenL
21st December 2008, 07:59 AM
That's true, but I find the LR interface easier to get on with. That's just my simple mind. :D

I'm sure I've read somewhere that both Photoshop and Lightroom have the same underlying ACR engine.

Jim

crimbo
21st December 2008, 07:59 AM
Crimbo.
Open rawtherapee, select preferences,then image processing,look for demosaicing algorithm and set VNG 4.

Thanks Pete... should have remembered that Oly RAWs do not like AHD methods...

Sofar...IMHO
I have Olympus Master that keeps the style you set in camera but allows them to be turned off but further PP usually needed
Capture One that is just so quick to use and produces an image that needs little further PP...
Bibble was just slow and produced okay images
RawTherapee that is slow and produced okay images
ACR that as with the two above needs further PP and uses an AHD demosaic so can cause artefacts

So whats missed?

Gwyver
21st December 2008, 11:28 AM
So is LR a different RAW developer than ACR?

Chris.
Lightroom and ACR both share the same Camera Raw processing engine.
(This is stated in Martin Evening's book:- "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 2 Book" and also on the Adobe Lightrooom Journal website.)

There is also a correspondence between LR versions and ACR updates
LR2.0 <-> ACR 4.5
LR2.1 <-> ACR 4.6
LR2.2 <-> ACR 5.2 (latest)

Hence any Raw edits applied in LR (including Local Adjustments), provided that your Catalog settings specify 'Always write metadata changes into XMP', will be rendered correctly when the image is opened using ACR4.5 or higher.

Similarly, image development edits made in ACR will be recognised and rendered as intended when the image is subsequently used by LR - provided that you ensure that LR has re-synchronized with the metadata in the XMP sidecar file (Use the 'Read Metadata from file' command).

Note that ACR 4.6 is the highest version which is directly usable by PS CS3, and that ACR 5.2 is for use with CS4.

Ellie
22nd December 2008, 12:08 AM
I use Capture One4, it suits me fine.

I've used Olympus Master but for some reason or other I'm not so fond of the way it previews images.

andym
22nd December 2008, 10:03 AM
So whats missed?

I use Silkypix.
I find it produces very good colours from ORF's.A lot of people I know dont like the interface but once your used to it its no problem.
You can download a free version that does not have all of the functionality of the payed version.
What I find really good also about it is the very comprehensive noise reduction options and the ease of generating you own presets.

Paulpp
22nd December 2008, 11:41 AM
Another vote for Aperture (if you use a Mac), and also for the Apple Seminars they run for free at their showrooms. Have taught me a lot.

OlyPaul
22nd December 2008, 04:07 PM
I use ACR and Silkypix but tend to favour Silkypix as I like the colors and tonality it produces.

Henk
22nd December 2008, 04:39 PM
I started with Bibble three years ago (E-500) but this program renders E-510 and E-3 raw with too much red which is very hard to correct so now I start in Olympus Studio.

Studio is very good in keeping fine detail but sucks for highlight recovery. So I develop more problematic orfs in Studio, RawTherapee, Bibble 4, DNG/ACR in Elements 4 and the free version of SilkyPix (which is very good in highlight recovery).

Then I make a choice which tiff (or jpg from SilkyPix) will get the PP treatment in PSP XI.

crimbo
22nd December 2008, 06:13 PM
Silkypix site appears to be down at the moment

Found http://bytedelight.com/en/content/perfectraw-06-alpha.htm that appears to decode E400 raws okay

HughofBardfield
23rd December 2008, 01:43 PM
To my way of thinking, different images may need different converters, just as one would have used different chemicals to bring out different qualities of film when we all went aroung smelling faintly of hypo.

I've been using Lightroom since the early public beta of v1. It works for me probably 90% of the time, and the additional tools in v2.x mean I almost never reach for Photoshop.

However, some images benefit from the extra highlight recovery available in Raw Therapee, and Lightzone is also something I use occasionally. It's especially good with B&W, but also handles some "extreme" images better than ACR IMHO.

Some folk on DP Review think that Studio/ Master can't be beaten for rendering "Olympus Colours", but I don't think there's anything that can't be recreated in LR if that's what you want.

UFRAW is another free converter (using DCRAW, which is the same engine as Raw Therapee) worth a look (see http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/ ) although there are some limitations.

mike_j
23rd December 2008, 03:08 PM
I like the look of version 2 but a) I can't afford it (not allowed - not even an upgrade), and b) if I could afford it I'm wary of the Exif info thing.

It's not a lot of help but anyone thinking of upgrading might like to know that it's about 10 cheaper from Amazon than from Adobe website.

donmcmahan
6th March 2009, 10:32 PM
my vote is for Lightroom, i trialed both Lightroom and Aperature, went for Lightroom though i liked them both. I also use Lightzone but not for raw conversions, i use it as an external editor alongside of lightroom it is briliant. i especially like that with lightroom you have nondestructive editing, you can mess around with an image as much as you like and if you go too far there is always that reset button. i am particularly glad i chose lightroom now that i have a Panasonic LX3 as my "other" camera. aperature doesn't support raw files from the LX3