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View Full Version : Olympus announces midrange E-30 dSLR, plus new version of the 14-54mm lens


CaptainD
4th November 2008, 06:39 AM
November 3, 2008

I found this article when I visited a certain other Olympus forum, details of the new Olympus E-30. The body seems to be more expensive than I thought it would be at $1299. But what I find really surprising is that a new version of the 14-54 lens is to be released,the Zuiko 14-54mm II f2.8-3.5. Here is the web link;

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10081393-1.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave

I will be interested to read your thoughts on this announcement.

Cheers

Chris *chr

ndl0071
4th November 2008, 07:30 AM
As an E1/E510 user, this new model at first glance doesnít look very attractive, the only new feature worth looking at for me is the new 12mp chip, what Iím really waiting for is the upgrade for the E3 as weather sealing is a must for me.

So whilst itís good to see development from Olympus, itís thanks but no thanks from me.

DekHog
4th November 2008, 08:00 AM
Looks nice, but I believe E-3 bodies are now going for around $1400 in the States, and probably the same here once you get your free FL-50R and sell it on afterwards - would you pay $1300 for the E30 body? Surely there has to be more of a price difference between the two models than $100?

Howi
4th November 2008, 09:24 AM
At the price quoted I think it is a non starter - For me the E-3 is off the radar for some time + I don't need weather proofing (I do! the camera doesn't!) I was hoping this would be my salvation. Why do they insist on putting such crappy features in that no self respecting photographer would use anyway??
I think Nikon have got it right with the D90 (not convinced by the video option though). The only good points I could see were reticulating screen and 12mp sensor, someone is not keeping their eye on the ball at Olympus - get a grip guys! *nono

HughofBardfield
4th November 2008, 09:25 AM
They'll have to do a lot better on price IMHO, although some megapixel junkies may bite. I don't see anything that would make the E30 a better proposition than the E3 for my next camera. I agree with ndl0071 - in our vile climate, weather sealing is almost an essential...

michaelavis
4th November 2008, 10:27 AM
These comments seem quite harsh to me, looks like the E-30 meets current "mid-range" criteria quite well, plus being 4/3rds it has access to the best real-world optics in the market. Compared to a E510/520, its got a bigger viewfinder, 5fps continuous shooting, advanced 11-point focussing, 12MP resolution (probably with better noise control >400 ISO) plus the USP of articulating LCD. These are the features needed to compete with the D90 and others.

Ive got an E520 and about to get an E-3. Subject to just how important the weather proofing turns out to be for me or how how often the extra size and weight means I'm tempted to leave it at home, I can see potential for swapping those two bodies for the E-30 - best of both worlds. No mention of SWD on the E-30, so I guess that's a E-3 unique?

E-P1 fan
4th November 2008, 10:28 AM
Hmmn - possibly another Oly mistake I think! Expect a bit of a drubbing in AP. Dear dear - just when I thought they were back on track with a reasonably cohesive and incremental dslr range.

I really don't like the way Oly seem to constantly drop models - and almost wash their hands of them and forget they ever made them (look for E-1 on the Oly site - it's a quest), and bring out yet more new models and sub-models. We know that's the business norm etc but really - Oly seem to be a bit out of control.

The only good thing I can see from these releases is that the gear junkies might buy the new 14 - 54mm and sell their originals.

If you haven't already got one of these - bite their hands off! It's a great lens. :D

Ian
4th November 2008, 10:31 AM
Er, this news is 24 hours premature :(

Ah well...

Ian

PeterD
4th November 2008, 10:58 AM
Er, this news is 24 hours premature :(

Ah well...

Ian

Thats the power of the internet Ian (and unfortunate lack of coordination in release info by Oly).

I think Oly have got this about right except perhaps the price.

One of the interesting things for me though is in the comparison table. I have been banging on for some time about a need to have more dynamic range in lightness levels and find that the Canon example is using 14bit colour depth whereas all the others are on the standard 12bit colour depth.
I think this would have a far greater impact than the continual drive for more pixels - How about it Oly?
I appreciate that this would not make much difference to most users but I think its essential for wildlife shooting where subtle colour/shade differences are experienced and wide differences in lightness levels can make a vast difference in the final result if the camera can reproduce them.

Peter

Ian
4th November 2008, 11:05 AM
Thats the power of the internet Ian (and unfortunate lack of coordination in release info by Oly).

I think Oly have got this about right except perhaps the price.

One of the interesting things for me though is in the comparison table. I have been banging on for some time about a need to have more dynamic range in lightness levels and find that the Canon example is using 14bit colour depth whereas all the others are on the standard 12bit colour depth.
I think this would have a far greater impact than the continual drive for more pixels - How about it Oly?
I appreciate that this would not make much difference to most users but I think its essential for wildlife shooting where subtle colour/shade differences are experienced and wide differences in lightness levels can make a vast difference in the final result if the camera can reproduce them.

Peter

You can't blame Olympus, it was C-Net that jumped the gun.

Has anyone spotted that there is an electronic level indicator? Oops - still under embargo! *laugh

Ian

StephenL
4th November 2008, 11:17 AM
Well, I've just bought myself an E-3, and I'm glad I didn't wait for this newcomer. It doesn't offer me any "must have" features over the E-3 (and not many over the E-520) yet at the same time it doesn't tempt me with a price benefit. I'm not attracted by 12 megapixels - it's how you use them, not how many you have!

PeterD
4th November 2008, 11:19 AM
You can't blame Olympus, it was C-Net that jumped the gun.

Has anyone spotted that there is an electronic level indicator? Oops - still under embargo! *laugh

Ian

But C-Net got the info from somewhere. Seriously Ian, Olympus (and others) could make better use of the internet than they currently do. They should be the first to make an announcement and, given the differences in time zones, it should be announced from one site. Local information on pricing could be released later. At least that way the manufacturer remains in control at the time of launching a new product.

I did notice the electronic level indicator but wonder how much such a feature would be used. Nice headline but I suspect of limited value. I was more interested in the feature I picked out. But then again, we all have our own interests and wish lists.

Peter

dbutch
4th November 2008, 11:20 AM
What a stange lot you all are I think this thing looks pretty much spot on! maybe not the price! but lets see what it hits the street at before we moan to much.

I would expect at least a few dust seals rather than full weatherproofing, the viewfinder spec looks useful, how does that compare to the E-1's? We have the better focus system of the E-3 and articulated screen and I'm guessing the G1's sensor that Ian thought performed well in his Photokina report.

I for one look forward to trying the E-30 it sounds like it could be just the ticket in the studio where I don't need it weatherproof, shoot at 100iso and would like some faster reflexes than the Exxx, plus it should be lighter than the E-3 which will also help.

Dave :)

gno
4th November 2008, 12:01 PM
Hi All,

Anyone care to enlighten me on what

"It has a built-in electronic level, like the Nikon D3, which shows both pitch and roll" is
and
I 've also read the blurb and may have missed it but does the E-30 have any sort of weatherproofing and is it an alloy body or composite plastic?

Regards

Gavin

PeterD
4th November 2008, 12:31 PM
Hi All,

Anyone care to enlighten me on what

"It has a built-in electronic level, like the Nikon D3, which shows both pitch and roll" is
and
I 've also read the blurb and may have missed it but does the E-30 have any sort of weatherproofing and is it an alloy body or composite plastic?

Regards

Gavin

Pitch is the vertical angle from the camera to the subject and roll is the angle, off horizontal. The way I see this is that this would be useful for tripod or monopod use but nothing else.

The E30 is not weatherproof nor is it an alloy body - from my understanding of the information supplied.

Peter

gno
4th November 2008, 12:48 PM
The E30 is not weatherproof nor is it an alloy body - from my understanding of the information supplied.

Peter

Thanks Peter for the information.
Seems to me to be a lot more money for a few more pixels like StephenL (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=29381#post29381)I think the E-3 is a better investment.

Regards

Gavin

Ian
4th November 2008, 12:55 PM
Thanks Peter for the information.
Seems to me to be a lot more money for a few more pixels like StephenL (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=29381#post29381)I think the E-3 is a better investment.

Regards

Gavin

If weather proofing and a tough alloy body are your priorities, then yes, the E-3 is a better choice for you.

If you think about it, Olympus need to differentiate their models clearly.

Ian

HughofBardfield
4th November 2008, 01:05 PM
But C-Net got the info from somewhere. Seriously Ian, Olympus (and others) could make better use of the internet than they currently do. They should be the first to make an announcement and, given the differences in time zones, it should be announced from one site. Local information on pricing could be released later. At least that way the manufacturer remains in control at the time of launching a new product.

I did notice the electronic level indicator but wonder how much such a feature would be used. Nice headline but I suspect of limited value. I was more interested in the feature I picked out. But then again, we all have our own interests and wish lists.

Peter

There have been rumours of a press release for Nov 5 - this sounds like CNET jumping an embargo. For anyone not familiar with PR and Marketing terminology, it's common practice to issue news releases with a "not to be published before...." deadline, especially for things like product launches. This gives publications time to set up their copy, interview people, resize the images, lose the images, ask for another copy etc etc. In theory, it facilitates simultaneous publishing by different media. The drawback is that there's not much to stop someone from jumping the gun and publishing when they feel like it. The only sanction is to say you won't ever send them an embargoed news release ever again and to tell them they've been very naughty boys and girls. With major publications/websites, who needs whom most??? I always disliked embargoes myself and never used them if I could help it when I worked in that kind of PR environment.

Funnily enough, I was toying with the idea of buying the hot shoe mounted electronic level gizmo I saw in a magazine recently for the princely sum of £30 (I think). I do have a bit of a problem with wonky horizons, but to be honest, straightening them in Lightroom is not much trouble.

I agree with you Peter - 14bit would be much more interesting...

PeterD
4th November 2008, 01:15 PM
If weather proofing and a tough alloy body are your priorities, then yes, the E-3 is a better choice for you.

If you think about it, Olympus need to differentiate their models clearly.

Ian

Ian, Its a nice spec and a good fill-in which compares reasonably with the competition but lets see the UK Price.

Peter

PeterD
4th November 2008, 01:23 PM
There have been rumours of a press release for Nov 5 - this sounds like CNET jumping an embargo. For anyone not familiar with PR and Marketing terminology, it's common practice to issue news releases with a "not to be published before...." deadline, especially for things like product launches. This gives publications time to set up their copy, interview people, resize the images, lose the images, ask for another copy etc etc. In theory, it facilitates simultaneous publishing by different media. The drawback is that there's not much to stop someone from jumping the gun and publishing when they feel like it. The only sanction is to say you won't ever send them an embargoed news release ever again and to tell them they've been very naughty boys and girls. With major publications/websites, who needs whom most??? I always disliked embargoes myself and never used them if I could help it when I worked in that kind of PR environment.

Funnily enough, I was toying with the idea of buying the hot shoe mounted electronic level gizmo I saw in a magazine recently for the princely sum of £30 (I think). I do have a bit of a problem with wonky horizons, but to be honest, straightening them in Lightroom is not much trouble.

I agree with you Peter - 14bit would be much more interesting...

Hugh,

The difference two bits makes is incredible. With 12 bits you get 4095 levels whilst 14 bits gives you 16,383 to play with. The trouble with digital is that the analogue info is sampled with the amount of bits available. The fewer the bits, the more rounding takes place and detail is lost. Why oh why are manufacturers hooked on pixel count when dynamic range is as least as important?

Peter

Ian
4th November 2008, 01:53 PM
Hugh,

The difference two bits makes is incredible. With 12 bits you get 4095 levels whilst 14 bits gives you 16,383 to play with. The trouble with digital is that the analogue info is sampled with the amount of bits available. The fewer the bits, the more rounding takes place and detail is lost. Why oh why are manufacturers hooked on pixel count when dynamic range is as least as important?

Peter

I'd be cautious about the value of the extra bit resolution. If the signal to noise ratio of the sensor isn't good enough, the extra bits will represent nothing useful.

And I don't really understand the reference to 'rounding off' - if the tonality available is split into 4095 values per channel, what gets rounded off? The signal is not under-sampled. It's just that the sampling is not as fine as 14 bits. 12 bits already represents a massive colour range and most of us will be working in 8-bit environments eventually.

Ian

Ian
4th November 2008, 02:03 PM
CNet appears to have pulled their CNet news item.

Ian

Makonde
4th November 2008, 02:04 PM
The cnet piece appears to have been pulled, but a synopsis is echoing round the internet...

Meanwhile, you all do make me chuckle! Always going on about how your own Oly is good enough for you, but a new model appears and there are more posts per minute in these forums than on any other subject LOL.

Some may not want 'arty' effects like pinhole camera on what is to be Oly's no.2 machine for a while (and I would be among them - O Lord, is this what Oly's European marketing director meant by 'having photoshop like facilities in the camera?).

But beyond that it seems that the E30 represents a technical step up from the E520 both with sensor (vital) and AF (important). We shall see about ISO (important).

I'm not attracted by it, but then I've lately bought the E520. I'm sure the street price will be lower than the price announced (and the E520 street price should drop too - a real bargain!).

What the price point and reported features mean to me is that to maintain the difference, Oly will shortly (this time next year?) have to bring up a successor to the E3 that has at least 12 MP, better ISO, and more besides. And that's what I'm waiting for, so I'm encouraged!

I just hope that doesn't also have an 'arty grain' facility....

I also hope there will be a high-end micro 4/3 that concentrates on quality rather than questionable 'features'

Graham_of_Rainham
4th November 2008, 02:16 PM
It's still here

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalcameras/0,39029429,49299700,00.htm

*chr

Ian
4th November 2008, 02:18 PM
It's still here

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalcameras/0,39029429,49299700,00.htm

*chr

Haha, that's the UK CNet feed...

Ian

CaptainD
4th November 2008, 02:18 PM
Dear Ian,

I had a gut feeling that the CNet article might just surfaced a little early as the great god Google did not reveal any other links. For a while I even wondered if it was a spoof article. Perhaps the person concerned may not get another invite to another Olympus pre-launch briefing!

Looking forward to reading more tomorrow out of interest but I will not be buying one until (if ever) my photography skills exceed my existing Olympus camera.

Cheers

Chris *chr

Ian
4th November 2008, 03:34 PM
Haha, that's the UK CNet feed...

Ian

And it's gone from there too!

Ian

Chillimonster
4th November 2008, 03:36 PM
And it's gone from there too!

Ian


Still...........

There's always this one


http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/11/04/olympus.e.30/


:)

Chris

Chillimonster
4th November 2008, 03:37 PM
or this one.........


http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/11/04/olympus.e.30/

PeterD
4th November 2008, 04:33 PM
Ian

Get the feeling thats its like trying to plug a leaky dam;)

Peter

Invicta
4th November 2008, 05:09 PM
I'd be cautious about the value of the extra bit resolution. If the signal to noise ratio of the sensor isn't good enough, the extra bits will represent nothing useful.

And I don't really understand the reference to 'rounding off' - if the tonality available is split into 4095 values per channel, what gets rounded off? The signal is not under-sampled. It's just that the sampling is not as fine as 14 bits. 12 bits already represents a massive colour range and most of us will be working in 8-bit environments eventually.

Ian

Disappointing to hear that Oly have no interest in 14-bit colour depth because the sensor can not differentiate signal from noise. Sounds like a major disadvantage of the smaller four-thirds sensor size. Less headroom in Photoshop before data is lost.

I now regret buying into the E-system.

PeterD
4th November 2008, 05:36 PM
Disappointing to hear that Oly have no interest in 14-bit colour depth because the sensor can not differentiate signal from noise. Sounds like a major disadvantage of the smaller four-thirds sensor size. Less headroom in Photoshop before data is lost.

I now regret buying into the E-system.

I too was dissappointed in Ian's response but still cannot believe that Olympus would ignore this. Nor do I think that the 4/3 sensors cannot achieve better colour depth. Some of the reason for better IQ on Cannon is for this reason. Pixels alone are not the answer. The more you have then the more important becomes colour depth.
I will now answer your question Ian, when sampling a signal (light in this case) the image sensor has to give the level as a binary code. The more bits you have, the closer you will get to the actual value. Perhaps this explains what I meant by rounding off.

Peter

Ian
4th November 2008, 05:39 PM
Disappointing to hear that Oly have no interest in 14-bit colour depth because the sensor can not differentiate signal from noise. Sounds like a major disadvantage of the smaller four-thirds sensor size. Less headroom in Photoshop before data is lost.

I now regret buying into the E-system.

Look at your pictures, not just technical specs.

Remember the debate about bit sampling in the early days of digital hifi?

I don't speak for Olympus - I'm just saying that I haven't seen ANY dramatic benefit in over-sampling in DSLRs, regardless of brand.

Ian

Ian
4th November 2008, 05:46 PM
I too was dissappointed in Ian's response but still cannot believe that Olympus would ignore this. Nor do I think that the 4/3 sensors cannot achieve better colour depth. Some of the reason for better IQ on Cannon is for this reason. Pixels alone are not the answer. The more you have then the more important becomes colour depth.
I will now answer your question Ian, when sampling a signal (light in this case) the image sensor has to give the level as a binary code. The more bits you have, the closer you will get to the actual value. Perhaps this explains what I meant by rounding off.

Peter

Well, the difference between 12 and 14 bit sampling is, in my view, of marginal value. I don't see any magical improvement in Canon colour whether 12 or 14-bit sampled. It's a good tool for marketing, though.

I'd say it's not BAD to have 14-bit sampling, but it will actually require more CPU power to process.

We end up viewing most of what we photograph in some kind of 8-bit colour space anyway.

Has there been any debate about deficient colour from E-System cameras? What about the 'legendary' E-1 colour? - that was not a 14-bit pipeline.

Ian

Invicta
4th November 2008, 05:51 PM
Look at your pictures, not just technical specs.

Remember the debate about bit sampling in the early days of digital hifi?

I don't speak for Olympus - I'm just saying that I haven't seen ANY dramatic benefit in over-sampling in DSLRs, regardless of brand.

Ian

The difference will not be dramatic as we are talking about the least significant bits. However, 14-bit will give you much smoother histograms when you start applying changes: no gaps or spikes where information is lost.

I want to buy into a camera system that I can develop into and improve with. However, after reading Miquel Angel Garcia, Olympus European marketing MD's comments and seeing the E-30 specs I get the impression Oly is only interested in the high-volume consumer market.

Ste1976
4th November 2008, 08:32 PM
The difference will not be dramatic as we are talking about the least significant bits. However, 14-bit will give you much smoother histograms when you start applying changes: no gaps or spikes where information is lost.

I want to buy into a camera system that I can develop into and improve with. However, after reading Miquel Angel Garcia, Olympus European marketing MD's comments and seeing the E-30 specs I get the impression Oly is only interested in the high-volume consumer market.

Well that could be right as Olympus or any other company for that matter, don't make shed loads of money of the top end line.

It's the comsumer market were money is to be made.

I think at £810 the E-30 body is overpriced, if it came with the new 14-54mm then it would be priced about right.

The D90 can now be had for under £600 for the body and around £749 with the lens which is still cheaper than the E-30 body & will be even moreso come Jan.

I looks like the E-30 is going up against both the D300 & 50D which are both much better spec camera's and come Jan won't be far off the £800 mark.

Sorry Olympus but if you intend to sell this camera then you really need to bring the price to around £599 for the body only.

photo_owl
4th November 2008, 09:19 PM
In the current world of currency market turmoil I wouldn't be announcing any possible price that I might have to increase on actual launch - so all prices are likely to contain a significant margin on the actual launch price.

Secondly I would like to continue to sell E3 and E520s over the next 2-3 months - and the indicated E30 price would seem to support that objective (from the comments here and elsewhere) nicely.

Finally the real issue with the E30 will be the IQ from the package both for the success of the model and as an indicator of how far things have moved on from the X20 range - and might do in another incarnation.

Zuiko
4th November 2008, 09:47 PM
The cnet piece appears to have been pulled, but a synopsis is echoing round the internet...

Meanwhile, you all do make me chuckle! Always going on about how your own Oly is good enough for you, but a new model appears and there are more posts per minute in these forums than on any other subject LOL.

Some may not want 'arty' effects like pinhole camera on what is to be Oly's no.2 machine for a while (and I would be among them - O Lord, is this what Oly's European marketing director meant by 'having photoshop like facilities in the camera?).

But beyond that it seems that the E30 represents a technical step up from the E520 both with sensor (vital) and AF (important). We shall see about ISO (important).

I'm not attracted by it, but then I've lately bought the E520. I'm sure the street price will be lower than the price announced (and the E520 street price should drop too - a real bargain!).

What the price point and reported features mean to me is that to maintain the difference, Oly will shortly (this time next year?) have to bring up a successor to the E3 that has at least 12 MP, better ISO, and more besides. And that's what I'm waiting for, so I'm encouraged!

I just hope that doesn't also have an 'arty grain' facility....

I also hope there will be a high-end micro 4/3 that concentrates on quality rather than questionable 'features'

I thought that already came as standard with all Oly cameras at high ISO? :eek: :D:D:D

garethlovering
4th November 2008, 10:01 PM
Just came across this link for the E30.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/11/04/olympus.e.30/

It has an electronic level to make it easier to take Landscapes photos, 12 Megapixels and a few other things borrowed from the E3, is it going to be worth the money? not sure if it will be,

Zuiko
4th November 2008, 10:06 PM
Hmmm, it seems we instinctively rip into Amateur Photographer every time they give a less than glowing review of an Olympus camera yet we are the brand's biggest critics! We even trash a new model before it is officially announced!

Let's summarise:-

The sensor's are next to useless with pitiful resolution and woeful dynamic range.

The legendary Oly colour is all an illusion that pales into insignificance when compared to Canon.

The new model is packed with meaningless gimmicks aimed only at increasing mass market share (yet it is far too expensive to sell any at all). Canon would never do that, would they?

Oly have lost their grip and the E30 is yet another mistake.

If Oly can't manage 14 bits their cameras are not worth buying.

The smaller Four Thirds sensor is a major disadvantage.

Oly is percieved as concentrating on questionable features rather than improvements in quality.

Good grief, if Angela or Barney at AP had said all that some of you would be calling for them to be lynched!

I must admit I hadn't realised my cameras were so bad, but then I'm a bit of a novice at photoshop so my mediocre pictures probably wouldn't improve with one of the far superior Canons or Nikons anyway!

One good thing stands out from all this; at least we Oly owners have far more legitimate excuses for our cr*p pictures than the poor old Canikon owners!

PeterD
4th November 2008, 10:54 PM
Hmmm, it seems we instinctively rip into Amateur Photographer every time they give a less than glowing review of an Olympus camera yet we are the brand's biggest critics! We even trash a new model before it is officially announced!

Let's summarise:-

The sensor's are next to useless with pitiful resolution and woeful dynamic range.

The legendary Oly colour is all an illusion that pales into insignificance when compared to Canon.

The new model is packed with meaningless gimmicks aimed only at increasing mass market share (yet it is far too expensive to sell any at all). Canon would never do that, would they?

Oly have lost their grip and the E30 is yet another mistake.

If Oly can't manage 14 bits their cameras are not worth buying.

The smaller Four Thirds sensor is a major disadvantage.

Oly is percieved as concentrating on questionable features rather than improvements in quality.

Good grief, if Angela or Barney at AP had said all that some of you would be calling for them to be lynched!

I must admit I hadn't realised my cameras were so bad, but then I'm a bit of a novice at photoshop so my mediocre pictures probably wouldn't improve with one of the far superior Canons or Nikons anyway!

One good thing stands out from all this; at least we Oly owners have far more legitimate excuses for our cr*p pictures than the poor old Canikon owners!

John,

Just to put the record straight as far as my comments are concerned.

1. In my first post I said:- "I think Oly have got this about right except perhaps the price."

2. Also in my first post I said:- "One of the interesting things for me though is in the comparison table. I have been banging on for some time about a need to have more dynamic range in lightness levels and find that the Canon example is using 14bit colour depth whereas all the others are on the standard 12bit colour depth.
I think this would have a far greater impact than the continual drive for more pixels - How about it Oly?
I appreciate that this would not make much difference to most users but I think its essential for wildlife shooting where subtle colour/shade differences are experienced and wide differences in lightness levels can make a vast difference in the final result if the camera can reproduce them." This was a general comment but NOT a critism of the E30.

3. The later comments were in response to comments made by others. As far as the Canon results are concerned, I have seen very good wildlife shots from all makes of cameras but I have noticed in some images a slight edge with the Canon where subtle changes in colour shades can be seen. This may well be due to the IQ of the lens but I think it also has a lot to do with colour depth too.

4. My comments regarding colour depth was meant as an encouragement for future development. After-all, Oly says it welcomes comments from its user base to consider for future models.

5. One thing that Canon have not got - and I treasure most of all - is in-body IS. This has been particularly well thought through as it is compatable with any lens that you attach to the camera, whatever the make.

I hope this helps to clear up my contribution to this debate.

Peter

Zuiko
4th November 2008, 11:13 PM
John,

Just to put the record straight as far as my comments are concerned.

1. In my first post I said:- "I think Oly have got this about right except perhaps the price."

2. Also in my first post I said:- "One of the interesting things for me though is in the comparison table. I have been banging on for some time about a need to have more dynamic range in lightness levels and find that the Canon example is using 14bit colour depth whereas all the others are on the standard 12bit colour depth.
I think this would have a far greater impact than the continual drive for more pixels - How about it Oly?
I appreciate that this would not make much difference to most users but I think its essential for wildlife shooting where subtle colour/shade differences are experienced and wide differences in lightness levels can make a vast difference in the final result if the camera can reproduce them." This was a general comment but NOT a critism of the E30.

3. The later comments were in response to comments made by others. As far as the Canon results are concerned, I have seen very good wildlife shots from all makes of cameras but I have noticed in some images a slight edge with the Canon where subtle changes in colour shades can be seen. This may well be due to the IQ of the lens but I think it also has a lot to do with colour depth too.

4. My comments regarding colour depth was meant as an encouragement for future development. After-all, Oly says it welcomes comments from its user base to consider for future models.

5. One thing that Canon have not got - and I treasure most of all - is in-body IS. This has been particularly well thought through as it is compatable with any lens that you attach to the camera, whatever the make.

I hope this helps to clear up my contribution to this debate.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the clarification, although it was by no means your comments alone that prompted my response - I noted that the whole tone of the thread appeared somewhat negative towards the new model and even the E-System in general! My post was intended to help put it all in perspective - I am concious that we collectively at times become hyper-critical of Oly precisely because we care. But nevertheless I do feel that sometimes we get it a little out of proportion and momentarily forget the many advantages that our brand has to offer. I am sure that some of the comments posted in this thread, were they to come from another brand user or, worse, magazine editorial staff, would have met with a strong and robust defence from members of this forum!

Cheers,

knikki
5th November 2008, 09:19 AM
Well I think the new E30 looks very exciting and looking at the specs compaired to the Canon and Nikon I think it has lots going for it.

I look forward to having a play and seeing some images from it at the Photo Imaging show next year.

Ok price looks to be an issue, but as it has not hit the streets yet we will have to wait and see.

HughofBardfield
5th November 2008, 10:13 AM
Look at your pictures, not just technical specs.

Remember the debate about bit sampling in the early days of digital hifi?

I don't speak for Olympus - I'm just saying that I haven't seen ANY dramatic benefit in over-sampling in DSLRs, regardless of brand.

Ian

Yes, and I still think my analogue record deck sounds better than my CD player... :D

photo_owl
5th November 2008, 10:31 AM
Yes, and I still think my analogue record deck sounds better than my CD player... :D


regardless of the merits of your deck Hugh, there have been a large number of 'proofs' suggesting that at the current sensor performance levels there is no practical output advantage in 14 over 12 bits with 1 exception noted - the D3.

If I can ever find the links to these I will post them to another thread dedicated to the subject.

back to the E30 - what does the panel think of these 2 features that I haven't seen commented on anywhere in forums or reviews...............

1. adjustable PDAF points - all 11 can be fine tuned in camera by up 20 data points
2. you can adjust your overall metering preference by up to 1EV in 1/6th steps

PeterD
5th November 2008, 10:45 AM
regardless of the merits of your deck Hugh, there have been a large number of 'proofs' suggesting that at the current sensor performance levels there is no practical output advantage in 14 over 12 bits with 1 exception noted - the D3.

If I can ever find the links to these I will post them to another thread dedicated to the subject.

back to the E30 - what does the panel think of these 2 features that I haven't seen commented on anywhere in forums or reviews...............

1. adjustable PDAF points - all 11 can be fine tuned in camera by up 20 data points
2. you can adjust your overall metering preference by up to 1EV in 1/6th steps

Thats a great idea. I feel guilty now for ever having raised the subject in this thread as all it seems to have done is muddy the debate over the E30 which I had NOT intended to do. They are two discrete discussions and need to be separated.

I shall look up the two points you have raised regarding to the E30 and give you any comments I may have later.

Thank you

Peter

knikki
5th November 2008, 10:54 AM
1. adjustable PDAF points - all 11 can be fine tuned in camera by up 20 data points
2. you can adjust your overall metering preference by up to 1EV in 1/6th steps


1) I really struggle with getting my head around Multiple Focusing points, I tend to use just one 98% of the time, so to me I do not see what the advantage of this feature is.

2) Now that is interesting, seeing as digital has a very narrow exposure tolerance I think the ability to fine tune the exposure by 1/6th of a stop is a good thing.

Ian
5th November 2008, 11:07 AM
1) I really struggle with getting my head around Multiple Focusing points, I tend to use just one 98% of the time, so to me I do not see what the advantage of this feature is.

2) Now that is interesting, seeing as digital has a very narrow exposure tolerance I think the ability to fine tune the exposure by 1/6th of a stop is a good thing.

With only three AF points in the earlier models, it's understandable that extra AF points may not seem valuable. But when you have enough, they can be useful for tracking moving subjects and for fixing the desired point of focus off-centre.

Personally, I mainly use the centre point, but I have found it useful on the E-3 to have the ten others.

Ian

photo_owl
5th November 2008, 11:28 AM
1) I really struggle with getting my head around Multiple Focusing points, I tend to use just one 98% of the time, so to me I do not see what the advantage of this feature is.

2) Now that is interesting, seeing as digital has a very narrow exposure tolerance I think the ability to fine tune the exposure by 1/6th of a stop is a good thing.

well given that you can adjust this centre point, and store your configuration for up to 20 lenses (I think), it's as applicable to you as anyone using the others!

if you find one of your lenses exhibiting a slight front focus for example you can adjust it back and save permenantly for just that lens. some sigma users might (from past posts) find this quite a benefit.

PeterD
5th November 2008, 11:43 AM
well given that you can adjust this centre point, and store your configuration for up to 20 lenses (I think), it's as applicable to you as anyone using the others!

if you find one of your lenses exhibiting a slight front focus for example you can adjust it back and save permenantly for just that lens. some sigma users might (from past posts) find this quite a benefit.

Now thats interesting. Where did you get this from? In the early days of the E3, this would have been a feature that was worth having when we had all the focussing issues of the early 12-60mm SWD lens.
Peter

Chillimonster
5th November 2008, 11:45 AM
well given that you can adjust this centre point, and store your configuration for up to 20 lenses (I think), it's as applicable to you as anyone using the others!

if you find one of your lenses exhibiting a slight front focus for example you can adjust it back and save permenantly for just that lens. some sigma users might (from past posts) find this quite a benefit.


I wonder if this is something that could be incorporated in the next firmware release for the E-3. After all the focus is all software controlled isn't it??


Chris

Jim Ford
5th November 2008, 12:17 PM
well given that you can adjust this centre point, and store your configuration for up to 20 lenses (I think), it's as applicable to you as anyone using the others!

if you find one of your lenses exhibiting a slight front focus for example you can adjust it back and save permenantly for just that lens. some sigma users might (from past posts) find this quite a benefit.

Is this another feature that will get sneered at as being a solution looking for a problem, but will get adopted by the big 2 and will then get classed as a valuable inovation?

Jim

Chillimonster
5th November 2008, 12:23 PM
Is this another feature that will get sneered at as being a solution looking for a problem, but will get adopted by the big 2 and will then get classed as a valuable inovation?

Jim


It already is adopted by the Big 2, and is needed to the huge variation of the quality of lenses available.

Back in Oly-land i am yet to have ANY ZD glass that needs adjusting.

I have heard of Sigma Glass Front / Back focussing so would be useful for those that have it.

Chris

PeterD
5th November 2008, 12:23 PM
Is this another feature that will get sneered at as being a solution looking for a problem, but will get adopted by the big 2 and will then get classed as a valuable inovation?

Jim

Far from it Jim. This would be a great contribution. Think about the problems of front/back focussing we early E3 owners had. We ended up having to swap hardware. This could be a win - win and compliments the firmware AF changes made to the E3 at about the same time.

Peter

photo_owl
5th November 2008, 12:48 PM
Is this another feature that will get sneered at as being a solution looking for a problem, but will get adopted by the big 2 and will then get classed as a valuable inovation?

Jim

I believe that the D3 has this, the overall metering preference and the level display.

However the Oly implementation of the AF adjustment/configuration seems to be one step on.

Personally I think this one is sensible but the metering adjustment and level will be really usefull - I get both roll and pitch 'out' frequently when shooting with the E3 + 7-14 in hand held low LV mode - example from a week ago ...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3182/2970671217_c73cfd81ed.jpg

these are solution to real problems (as opposed to some of the features that seem to be getting significant discussion but are unlikely to ever get used or missed) in real life!

Nick Temple-Fry
5th November 2008, 01:33 PM
1) I really struggle with getting my head around Multiple Focusing points, I tend to use just one 98% of the time, so to me I do not see what the advantage of this feature is.



As I've spent a year (almost) with the E-3 and have only just got my head at least partly around multiple focussing points.

Working in s-af with a single central central point remains my favourite for hand held shooting, it is so easy to just offset the camera for a moment and keep the shutter button half held.

But once the camera in on a tripod then it is a lot easier to tell the camera to 'please use the lower left focus point - thank you', particularly as that avoids you having to set aperture ridiculously small aperture to get the needed dof.

There are also a number of hand held shots (particularly) when the subject is filling the frame which would have been improved with an offset focal point. It's is just that it has taken a number of months to grow the necessary double joints on my fingers/thumb, a 3'rd dedicatable thumbwheel would be such a blessing.

Nick

Zuiko
5th November 2008, 08:29 PM
Yes, and I still think my analogue record deck sounds better than my CD player... :D

That's why I've still got my Bronica! ;)

shenstone
5th November 2008, 08:35 PM
back to the E30 - what does the panel think of these 2 features that I haven't seen commented on anywhere in forums or reviews...............

1. adjustable PDAF points - all 11 can be fine tuned in camera by up 20 data points
2. you can adjust your overall metering preference by up to 1EV in 1/6th steps

1. May be useful, but not sure

2. YES ! - I've posted elsewhere that I'm a sucker for a little more saturation and I almost never go into the +ev so being able to set my preference in camera and work from there would be great

shenstone
5th November 2008, 08:38 PM
1) I really struggle with getting my head around Multiple Focusing points, I tend to use just one 98% of the time, so to me I do not see what the advantage of this feature is.


Hi Knikki

I guess it depends on your photography preferences - I use the alternate points a lot otherwise I can't get any form of decent composition (mind you many will agree with that last part of the statement)

Re

Zuiko
5th November 2008, 08:44 PM
Thats a great idea. I feel guilty now for ever having raised the subject in this thread as all it seems to have done is muddy the debate over the E30 which I had NOT intended to do. They are two discrete discussions and need to be separated.

I shall look up the two points you have raised regarding to the E30 and give you any comments I may have later.

Thank you

Peter

Don't feel guilty, Peter! You was quite legitimately making a fair and honest comment. We may not all agree with you, of course, but open, respectful and informed debate prevails on this forum (and FTU) more than on any other site I have sampled. We should celebrate and cherish this, not apologise for it! And I value your views as much as any others!

PeterD
5th November 2008, 08:49 PM
Don't feel guilty, Peter! You was quite legitimately making a fair and honest comment. We may not all agree with you, of course, but open, respectful and informed debate prevails on this forum (and FTU) more than on any other site I have sampled. We should celebrate and cherish this, not apologise for it! And I value your views as much as any others!

Thanks John. I am glad to have had the opportunity to read the specs in some detail and have posted my views on the other E30 thread.

Peter

dennisg
5th November 2008, 09:38 PM
http://www.imaginginfo.com/web/online/News/Olympus-Releases-New-E-30-DSLR-/3$4410

PTN here is the US has just posted this article on the New Olympus E30. Enjoy!

Dennis G*chr

michaelavis
6th November 2008, 09:18 AM
I'm sure many will have seen this, the side by side comparisons are interesting

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0811/08110503olympus_e30_hands_on.asp

Zuiko
6th November 2008, 09:27 PM
I'm sure many will have seen this, the side by side comparisons are interesting

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0811/08110503olympus_e30_hands_on.asp

Very interesting, particularly this description of the Pitch and Roll function!

"On the more practical side of things is the ability to automatically correct for both pitch and roll, meaning perspective correction for converging verticals as well as simply straightening horizons."

When I read the specs I took it to mean it was an electronic aid to keeping the camera straight, a sort of high-tech spirit level. I didn't realise it would correct perspective! If it does, that's far from being a minor new feature. :cool:

RogerMac
6th November 2008, 09:51 PM
Very interesting, particularly this description of the Pitch and Roll function!

"On the more practical side of things is the ability to automatically correct for both pitch and roll, meaning perspective correction for converging verticals as well as simply straightening horizons."

When I read the specs I took it to me it was an electronic aid to keeping the camera straight, a sort of high-tech spirit level. I didn't realise it would correct perspective! If it does, that's far from being a minor new feature. :cool:

Whoops - if thats confirmed it has suddenly become a "must have":):)

Roger

HughofBardfield
7th November 2008, 10:03 AM
Very interesting, particularly this description of the Pitch and Roll function!

"On the more practical side of things is the ability to automatically correct for both pitch and roll, meaning perspective correction for converging verticals as well as simply straightening horizons."

When I read the specs I took it to mean it was an electronic aid to keeping the camera straight, a sort of high-tech spirit level. I didn't realise it would correct perspective! If it does, that's far from being a minor new feature. :cool:

I think that's all it is:

According to Olympus's website:

"Level Gauge
Detection 2-axes
Display Rear LCD monitor, viewfinder, control panel"
(http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_digital_slr_specs_e-30_20269.htm )

and from www.fourthirds-user.com:

"Camera orientation sensor

"An unexpected feature of the E-30 is its dedicated three dimensional orientation sensor. Entirely separate from the accelerometers that serve the E-30's integrated moving sensor image stabiliser, the Digital Level Sensor, as Olympus calls it, not only senses and indicates left/right tilt, helping the photographer avoid sloping horizons, but forward and aft pitch, which will be useful in controlling vertical alignment in areas like architectural photography. The orientation indicator is visible in the viewfinder, on the top-panel LCD, and the back screen LCD in live view mode."


Software correction of converging verticals is, of course, perfectly possible (I prefer to use ShiftN or PTLens rather than Photoshop, which is a bit a faff), but it would be difficult to see how it could be implemented in a DSLR. I think someone on DPReview has got hold of the wrong end of the aardvark and the "perspective correction" rumour is bouncing around the web like an unexploded shell...

How keen people are on the idea should give the marmosets who staff Olympus marketing an idea of how successful a ZD Tilt-Shift lens could be if they even thought of making one.

Ian - can I have a free E30 for getting the most weird and mixed metaphors into a post??? :D

Ellie
8th November 2008, 01:09 AM
I got quite excited about this perspective control too here (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=29523#post29523) but that thread's been left behind. PhotoOwl said much the same, that it probably isn't as good as we were hoping

Software correction of converging verticals is, of course, perfectly possible (I prefer to use ShiftN or PTLens rather than Photoshop, which is a bit a faff), but it would be difficult to see how it could be implemented in a DSLR. I think someone on DPReview has got hold of the wrong end of the aardvark and the "perspective correction" rumour is bouncing around the web like an unexploded shell...

The thing about perspective is that you can line the camera up nicely using up and down with spirit levels but if the sensor isn't at 90 degrees to the image there's a heck of a lot of editing and fiddling to do, even if you're using something like ShiftN to fix the verticals, because there are sideways/diagonal differences too which it doesn't fix very well.

It would be nice if they invested in developing a digital shift lens, but I can't see it will happen because I can't imagine there would be many potential customers, except for specialist photographers, and it would be very expensive.