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Zuiko
18th October 2014, 01:42 PM
I have always thought that the format for the photo challenges on this site are rather complicated, with participants required to email their entries to the curator, who then has to ask members to vote for the winner. Consequently most of the activity is by private email and passes unnoticed to the majority of visitors to this site. This point is proven by the fact that a challenge does not appear to have taken place for many months and I, a fairly regular visitor, haven't even noticed - until now.

It also seems to me that the process of entering is discouraging and too much bother. Certainly, I have never entered a challenge here, whereas I enter on a fairly regular basis on Ian's other two sites, FTU and DPnow.

I therefore propose that we adopt a similar system to those other sites, with a curator starting a new thread into which participants post their entries for all to view. At the end of the competition the curator choses a winner (no voting) and that person then becomes the curator for the next challenge, setting the theme in a new thread.

I am quite happy to be the first curator to get the ball rolling again (it may be the only time I get to curate :o) but first I would like to hear your opinions.

What do you think?

StephenL
18th October 2014, 01:48 PM
Sounds a good idea - it should promote some good images. Are we going to allow comments and discussions (which would probably in the true spirit of the Forum become hijacked and sidetracked!), or just pictures? Limited to one per person per Challenge?

OlyPaul
18th October 2014, 01:49 PM
I think it is a good idea John, I nearly always participate on other forums challenges just not on my favourite forum because it is a to convaluted process to participate.:)

Zuiko
18th October 2014, 02:01 PM
Sounds a good idea - it should promote some good images. Are we going to allow comments and discussions (which would probably in the true spirit of the Forum become hijacked and sidetracked!), or just pictures? Limited to one per person per Challenge?

I would favour keeping the competition thread exclusive for the display of the competition entries for the reasons that you give! Comments and discussions could be allowed after the challenge has closed and the curator has made his or her decision, or a seperate thread specifically for comments could run concurrently whilst the challenge is in progress, if there is enough demand.

sponner
18th October 2014, 02:51 PM
sounds like a plan

Ralph Harwood
18th October 2014, 04:17 PM
Hi there everyone!

That sounds good to me too. I think that we are all grown up enough on here to not play favourites, and the personal taste of the curator is just part of the process. I think a separate thread for comments is a good thing, although I do enjoy a good tangent!

Cheers,

Ralph.

Chevvyf1
18th October 2014, 06:57 PM
one question Zuiko, does the Curate have to wear a 'dog collar' ? if so what colour and does it gets post to the next Curate ?

PS I think this is an EXCELLENT idea :)

Zuiko
18th October 2014, 09:15 PM
one question Zuiko, does the Curate have to wear a 'dog collar' ? if so what colour and does it gets post to the next Curate ?

PS I think this is an EXCELLENT idea :)

Ha ha, Chevvy, you had me thinking for a moment that I'd used the wrong word! :D

Chevvyf1
18th October 2014, 09:49 PM
Ha ha, Chevvy, you had me thinking for a moment that I'd used the wrong word! :D

John :eek: you could always become a 'lay Preacher' :rolleyes:

Now where is my HAT :D ;)

benvendetta
19th October 2014, 07:19 AM
My photographic club does exactly the same thing with its Facebook page. Very easy to operate and whoever is judging the entries announces their 3-2-1 with a few words about the winning images. I would be up for this sort of thing as I don't believe that voting for the 'best' image is necessarily the best way.

sapper
19th October 2014, 08:05 AM
I like the idea John. But, no comments, just images.

David M
19th October 2014, 12:44 PM
It may be a way of reviving the group. The site seems to be primarily buy and sell these days.

Chevvyf1
19th October 2014, 03:41 PM
David :D yes the number of images posted per diem are tragically low these days in the Gallery and per week - although I do my best to keep them up, many post here now via Flickr etc.,

This does not bode well for Olympus, who are financially supporting our Olympus e forum :(

benvendetta
19th October 2014, 04:49 PM
I like the idea John. But, no comments, just images.

I think that whoever is deciding on the placings should at least consider commenting on them. I know that i would. Placings on their own don't do so much.

Wee man
19th October 2014, 04:57 PM
Whilst liking the idea I would rather not have to explain my choice as it would purely be based on what I like when looking at the entries. I still do not feel confident that I can meaningfully comment in the LFI section!

Chevvyf1
19th October 2014, 05:31 PM
I think that whoever is deciding on the placings should at least consider commenting on them. I know that i would. Placings on their own don't do so much.

I think it is helpful "to know a little of the Judges eye and Preferences" it is person to the Judge, but a comment as "2nd Chevvy because I just liked the composition and b & w processing more than Chevvy's entry and 1st because "it was my favourite of the top 3 or 5". 3rd because I preferred Chevvys for 2nd just a tiny bit more.

Alternatively, someone may comment "1st Brian for composition ; sharp or blur ; light all 5/5 and it made me laugh . 2nd Chevvy not quite a 5 on sharp
and 3rd Fred as not quite a 4 on sharp.

I dont know ... just some thoughts on why I may pick one image over another :) Kind, but my personal likes :)

ps must not be a compulsory of the Curate :) because as Ed says some of us :) are not confident in critique.

sapper
19th October 2014, 06:29 PM
I think that whoever is deciding on the placings should at least consider commenting on them. I know that i would. Placings on their own don't do so much.

Agreed. I meant no comments from the posters.

Ulfric M Douglas
19th October 2014, 06:38 PM
Start two threads at the time of opening the challenge : one for the photos only, one for comments.

Bikie John
19th October 2014, 07:28 PM
My apologies - I was going to do something with this back in Jan/Feb as the winner of the last challenge, but real life got in the way.

I think the salon idea is a good one. We might wonder whether we need another one given that The Other Place runs one, but we get different people here so I don't see why not.

There is at least one thing I think we need to be careful of - eligibility based on equipment used. There was a storm-in-a-teacup argument at one point over whether images from the new Stylus would be permissible or not - it doesn't matter much whether they are or they aren't, but it is important to know. We need to have the criteria clearly set out before we start.

We also have to bear in mind that this forum is funded by Olympus, presumably because they would like it to showcase their cameras and lenses. We haven't heard much from Ian recently (more real life getting in the way, probably) - but whatever we decide has to be acceptable to him as Oly's representative.

Other things I was mulling over back in Jan were how long a challenge should last, whether entrants should be allowed to change their entries after submission, and member comments as discussed above. My views on these are:

1. About 3 or 4 weeks. When the new curator sets the challenge, it is up to them to set and publish the closing date.

2. No.

3. Comments from the curator about their choice of winner would be useful, if the curator feels able to make them, but should not be mandatory as we don't want to put people off doing it. Comments from others would be interesting, but only after the event is closed.

Thanks JohnZ for picking this up. Had it been left to me it would probably still be deep in limbo :)

Ciao ... John

benvendetta
19th October 2014, 08:45 PM
If I remember currently, the previous challenges required images to be taken between certain dates. I am sure that this didn't help entry numbers and I suggest that any image can be submitted as long as it wasn't over a certain age, say 6 or 12 months. Easily verified in the Exif data. What do others think?

Zuiko
19th October 2014, 09:27 PM
Good, we're getting some excellent points for debate.

My personal views on the issues raised are as follows:-

Judges should be encouraged to write a few words about why they chose the winner (and ideally 2nd and 3rd places) but this should not be mandatory as we most certainly don't want to deter anyone from participating. Also, if a winner really doesn't feel confident in staging the next round I'm sure that either a mod or willing volunteer could step in, so there really is no need for anyone not to enter.

A separate thread should be started for comments for each new competition so that the main thread can concentrate only on the pictures.

There should be no restriction on when a picture was taken, so long as it fulfills other criteria. If it was a great picture 5 years ago why shouldn't it be used today?

With the above point in mind, I would favour a 2 week period for submissions for each round as it wouldn't be necessary to take a picture specially for the competition. I feel this would give people more opportunity to enter, with a greater choice of subjects throughout the year and would also create new interest more regularly for visitors to the site.

As this is a competition, albeit only for fun, I feel it is important that the entries are taken on Olympus digital cameras. I know this site is specifically for E-System FT and MFT users, but I see no harm in allowing entries taken on Olympus digital compacts - after all, Olympus want to promote those too. Also, I believe that other brand lenses used on Olympus bodies should be acceptable - the fact that so many options are available is a strong selling point for the system.

The primary aim of these challenges is to have fun and create extra interest and activity on the forum. Therefore we probably don't need to get too hung up about rules, so long as we have some clear and simple guidelines in place for the relaunch. The rules can always be changed if it becomes apparent that some aspect of the competition is not working as well as it could be.

As I say, these are my opinions on the issues raised so far, but I'm happy to be swayed by better suggestions.

What do you think? :)

Zuiko
19th October 2014, 09:34 PM
My apologies - I was going to do something with this back in Jan/Feb as the winner of the last challenge, but real life got in the way.

I think the salon idea is a good one. We might wonder whether we need another one given that The Other Place runs one, but we get different people here so I don't see why not.

There is at least one thing I think we need to be careful of - eligibility based on equipment used. There was a storm-in-a-teacup argument at one point over whether images from the new Stylus would be permissible or not - it doesn't matter much whether they are or they aren't, but it is important to know. We need to have the criteria clearly set out before we start.

We also have to bear in mind that this forum is funded by Olympus, presumably because they would like it to showcase their cameras and lenses. We haven't heard much from Ian recently (more real life getting in the way, probably) - but whatever we decide has to be acceptable to him as Oly's representative.

Other things I was mulling over back in Jan were how long a challenge should last, whether entrants should be allowed to change their entries after submission, and member comments as discussed above. My views on these are:

1. About 3 or 4 weeks. When the new curator sets the challenge, it is up to them to set and publish the closing date.

2. No.

3. Comments from the curator about their choice of winner would be useful, if the curator feels able to make them, but should not be mandatory as we don't want to put people off doing it. Comments from others would be interesting, but only after the event is closed.

Thanks JohnZ for picking this up. Had it been left to me it would probably still be deep in limbo :)

Ciao ... John

No need to apologise, John, I think it was clear back then that the format wasn't working very well and it was really up to us mods to do something about it. :)

Grumpy Hec
20th October 2014, 07:14 AM
Good, we're getting some excellent points for debate.

My personal views on the issues raised are as follows:-

Judges should be encouraged to write a few words about why they chose the winner (and ideally 2nd and 3rd places) but this should not be mandatory as we most certainly don't want to deter anyone from participating. Also, if a winner really doesn't feel confident in staging the next round I'm sure that either a mod or willing volunteer could step in, so there really is no need for anyone not to enter.

A separate thread should be started for comments for each new competition so that the main thread can concentrate only on the pictures.

There should be no restriction on when a picture was taken, so long as it fulfills other criteria. If it was a great picture 5 years ago why shouldn't it be used today?

With the above point in mind, I would favour a 2 week period for submissions for each round as it wouldn't be necessary to take a picture specially for the competition. I feel this would give people more opportunity to enter, with a greater choice of subjects throughout the year and would also create new interest more regularly for visitors to the site.

As this is a competition, albeit only for fun, I feel it is important that the entries are taken on Olympus digital cameras. I know this site is specifically for E-System FT and MFT users, but I see no harm in allowing entries taken on Olympus digital compacts - after all, Olympus want to promote those too. Also, I believe that other brand lenses used on Olympus bodies should be acceptable - the fact that so many options are available is a strong selling point for the system.

The primary aim of these challenges is to have fun and create extra interest and activity on the forum. Therefore we probably don't need to get too hung up about rules, so long as we have some clear and simple guidelines in place for the relaunch. The rules can always be changed if it becomes apparent that some aspect of the competition is not working as well as it could be.

As I say, these are my opinions on the issues raised so far, but I'm happy to be swayed by better suggestions.

What do you think? :)

I think this all but nails it John.

No time limit for when the image was taken is important in my view as it may enable more people to enter.

I have a separate idea to throw in for debate to encourage a different style of image showing. We often see sets of image in photo fair which can be very good in story telling and portraying more than is possible in just a single image. My thought is to have a new place to show sets in a more formal way in addition to photo fair.

Equally we rarely see anything showing new ideas or peoples less mainstream work in single images or sets. So I wonder if this thread could be somewhere to expand on ideas some of which could be more experimental or unusual.

For me the latter point is important as I have all but stopped posting as I feel most of the images I take are not to the taste of the majority of forum members. That is of course fair enough. However, if we are looking for reasons why people might not be posting, that is why I post only occasionally these days.

Please note that I'm not complaining :)


Hope I haven't muddied the waters here :(

Hec

bilbo
20th October 2014, 07:55 AM
My photographic club does exactly the same thing with its Facebook page. Very easy to operate and whoever is judging the entries announces their 3-2-1 with a few words about the winning images. I would be up for this sort of thing as I don't believe that voting for the 'best' image is necessarily the best way.For me, this is the way to go, with the winner choosing the next theme within a few days. When are you going to start it John? *chr

Zuiko
20th October 2014, 08:16 AM
For me, this is the way to go, with the winner choosing the next theme within a few days. When are you going to start it John? *chr

I thought I'd start it today as reactions all seem positive. We can fine tune it if necessary as we go along. :)

Zuiko
20th October 2014, 08:20 AM
I think this all but nails it John.

No time limit for when the image was taken is important in my view as it may enable more people to enter.

I have a separate idea to throw in for debate to encourage a different style of image showing. We often see sets of image in photo fair which can be very good in story telling and portraying more than is possible in just a single image. My thought is to have a new place to show sets in a more formal way in addition to photo fair.

Equally we rarely see anything showing new ideas or peoples less mainstream work in single images or sets. So I wonder if this thread could be somewhere to expand on ideas some of which could be more experimental or unusual.

For me the latter point is important as I have all but stopped posting as I feel most of the images I take are not to the taste of the majority of forum members. That is of course fair enough. However, if we are looking for reasons why people might not be posting, that is why I post only occasionally these days.

Please note that I'm not complaining :)


Hope I haven't muddied the waters here :(

Hec

Some great ideas there, Hec, which I think deserve separate discussion and expansion. I've therefore started a new thread for this purpose and would encourage anyone who wishes to join the debate to comment there: http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=315673#post315673 :)

Chevvyf1
20th October 2014, 08:22 AM
Hec :) nothing less than BRILLIANT :) ideas

Zuiko
20th October 2014, 09:48 AM
I thought I'd start it today as reactions all seem positive. We can fine tune it if necessary as we go along. :)

I've now started it, see: http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35112

Janet
20th October 2014, 11:09 AM
Some great ideas here!

Looking forward to it.

Janet

Chevvyf1
20th October 2014, 11:19 AM
I think this all but nails it John.

No time limit for when the image was taken is important in my view as it may enable more people to enter.

I have a separate idea to throw in for debate to encourage a different style of image showing. We often see sets of image in photo fair which can be very good in story telling and portraying more than is possible in just a single image. My thought is to have a new place to show sets in a more formal way in addition to photo fair.

Equally we rarely see anything showing new ideas or peoples less mainstream work in single images or sets. So I wonder if this thread could be somewhere to expand on ideas some of which could be more experimental or unusual.

For me the latter point is important as I have all but stopped posting as I feel most of the images I take are not to the taste of the majority of forum members. That is of course fair enough. However, if we are looking for reasons why people might not be posting, that is why I post only occasionally these days.

Please note that I'm not complaining :)


Hope I haven't muddied the waters here :(

Hec


Hec, I am sad your not posting much :( and I feel that VARIETY is the SPICE of Life and mother of Inspiration - SO PLEASE POST (or pm me where you are posting, as I am interested in yours and I can cock a snook :)

I occasionally post some for "comments" and know who will say YUK! because its not MAINSTREAM :) but thats like horses showing classes - you get to know the Judge who likes black mares of fine build, big cannon bones, 7/8 x Irish Thoroughbred :) and only enter those classes :) *chr and NEVER a Grey Judge who places all the greys 1st, 2nd ,3rd ... down the line to 6th :(

Westy
20th October 2014, 11:22 AM
I know this has been posted somewere before. But maybe a sticky thread explaining in detail how to post an image to the forum. I am sure there will be members who are unsure of how to do this. :)

Chevvyf1
20th October 2014, 11:26 AM
Can it be a monthly COMP ? so we dont get bogged down in which week it is ?

and not ending at the beginning or end of the month (because of Christmas New Year etc., )

so maybe 2nd Monday EVERYWEEK which gets fixed in our brain and stays that day & date i almost insignificant :)
and 3 weeks for entries.
judging results on 1st Monday after 11 am (this gives anyone up to 11am on Judging Monday to enter)

and handover to new Curate late on 1st Monday (say after 6pm)
start next comp on 2nd Monday again

???
It also gives everyone the full weekend before to "get entries in"

mike_j
20th October 2014, 07:46 PM
Wouldn't it be nice if it was a common challenge across all three of Ian's forums? Then the quality of the Oly gear could shine out :D

Zuiko
20th October 2014, 08:00 PM
I know this has been posted somewere before. But maybe a sticky thread explaining in detail how to post an image to the forum. I am sure there will be members who are unsure of how to do this. :)

Good point, Paul, I can create a sticky thread on the Photo Challanges board so that members wanting to enter always have the information to hand.

I haven't made it a rule of the competition that entries must be posted from the Forum Gallery, because I know that some people prefer to link to Flickr or elsewhere and I want to include as many people as possible. However, we would much prefer if they did use the gallery. :)

Zuiko
20th October 2014, 08:17 PM
Can it be a monthly COMP ? so we dont get bogged down in which week it is ?

and not ending at the beginning or end of the month (because of Christmas New Year etc., )

so maybe 2nd Monday EVERYWEEK which gets fixed in our brain and stays that day & date i almost insignificant :)
and 3 weeks for entries.
judging results on 1st Monday after 11 am (this gives anyone up to 11am on Judging Monday to enter)

and handover to new Curate late on 1st Monday (say after 6pm)
start next comp on 2nd Monday again

???
It also gives everyone the full weekend before to "get entries in"

That sounds like a four-weekly competition, Chevvy, which would mean 13 challenges a year. It's not a bad idea, except that I know from experience on other forums that judging and setting new challenges will not always run exactly to timetable and thus the continuity will soon be broken! For now I think we will trial the two week duration and see how it goes. I've noticed on other forums that competitions with a longer entry period often stagnate during the 3rd week onwards, losing some of the interest and impetus. If it becomes apparent that members are finding the entry period of two weeks too short, then it can be extended. However, a major benefit of a relatively short entry period is that we get more challenges per year, with greater variety and more opportunities for members to participate.

Zuiko
20th October 2014, 08:21 PM
Wouldn't it be nice if it was a common challenge across all three of Ian's forums? Then the quality of the Oly gear could shine out :D

Yes, but wouldn't it be embarrassing if a Panny user from Four Thirds User or a Canon user from DPNow won! :D

Chevvyf1
20th October 2014, 08:30 PM
Apart from which, here is not Ians forum but Olympus which Ian manages :(
so I guess its a "no can do" :(