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Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 12:16 PM
Hi there, I was really happy to be approached by Olympus for the use of one of my photographs for their new monthly ad campaign. Before I could say yes and agree to the terms my photo was already taken, edited, and being used without credit for their benefit, now day 5 on their front page website.

Can anyone can offer me any advice here? Seems a little wrong to me as I should be benefiting from this and I have given no permission for the to take it, edit and not credit me.

You can see the photo which is on the Olympus impressions page.
http://www.olympus-impressions.com/en/about

bilbo
5th December 2013, 01:19 PM
Simply disgraceful behaviour.

Iansky
5th December 2013, 01:23 PM
This is in fact blatant copyright infringement and they are required by law to ask your permission up front to use the image.

There has been a recent case in the USA where a photographers image from a hosting site was used by an agency, credited to one of their personnel not the copyright owner - he won $2 million dollars (last weeks AP magazine).

Unfortunately, many of the larger companies feel they are above the law and able to "lift and use" photographers photos without seeking their permission, this is not the case and you are well within your rights challenging them on this use especially if they did not credit you or state coyright is yours.

I would suggest that by their actions of asking your permission retrospectively, they are in principle admitting guilt.

Definately worth a letter to them for this infringement and I would ask them for a stylus 1 camera that is the prize they are offering for themed images used - they have already used yours so owe you a camera!

I have to add I am surprised, when Olympus wanted to use one of my images in their magazine they did in fact contact me first and I was happy to oblige.

Please post the results of your challenge so we can see if they have integrity.

benvendetta
5th December 2013, 01:33 PM
Very poor on the part of Olympus. But what with the E-M1 and grip/MMF3 supply problems, perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised.

Where did they lift the image from?

photo_owl
5th December 2013, 01:37 PM
how did Olympus get your image?

Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 01:38 PM
Thank you for the reply.

Its terrible really, before this month they asked if they could use the image. Of course being honoured and to receive publication on the front page is a great achievement etc so as we were talking still discussing the terms which I asked but then i found out they had already taken the image and put on the Olympus impressions website, edited, crop and taken the copyright signature from it.

They got in touch days later and told me they would credit me where ever this photo is used, and still nothing, no credit, nothing. I feel robbed.

Ill find the conversation so who ever is interested can see.

Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 01:48 PM
These are screenshots of the entire convo on OlympusUK fb page. They have just uploaded it on their social media website, still concerned about the front page on their website. Tell me what you think.

This is screen shots in order on convo excluding pics..
3370

3371

3372

3373

3374

photo_owl
5th December 2013, 01:49 PM
your description suggests this was before you posted it to this forum on your Birds of Prey post, so they saw it on your website and contacted you?

Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 02:01 PM
No, I posted a different shot from the series on their fb site and said they would love to see more.

Here's the conversation

3375

Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 02:15 PM
No, I posted a different shot from the series on their fb site and said they would love to see more.

Here's the conversation

3375

bilbo
5th December 2013, 02:18 PM
They've acknowledged you on the facebook (https://www.facebook.com/OlympusUK)page...

photo_owl
5th December 2013, 02:25 PM
unfortunately I can't read any of the conversations you have posted, even with a magnifiying glass, but the reason for my question revolved around whether you had posted as an Olympus Impressions entry - in which case their T&C clearly cover their actions.

as to acreditation, you were fully acredited in quite a large 'slot', with a direct link to your website (which is quite rare for a non-Olympus visionary!) a few days ago -

"OlympusUK
December 3
This shot from Ashley Duncan embodies this month's #OlympusImpressions theme: 'Naturally Nocturnal'.

What else have you captured that comes out at twilight?

http://www.ashleyduncanphotography.com/"

They don't acredit small image/links on the Olympus Impressions articles that I've seen.

It would appear that some haste, or communication breakdown, has happened and I'm sure Oly will apologise if they've wronged you. Most likely the image ended up with the Oly Impressions team who believed it had been submitted as an entry and was subject to their standard T&C - whilst Oly UK FB team delivered to your terms (if that's what you asked for)

Obviously I've interpreted some bits here, but my point is that everything points to mis-understandings rather than the disgusting criminal behaviour other posters have judged.

I hope things get resolved to your satisfaction

Lovely image *chr

Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 02:26 PM
Yes I saw that, from today but they stated they would have a link to my work "anywhere" the image was used, I.e. on their Olympus impressions website also.

Update: ok from the third, but I never submitted to the competition, I just posted some shots last month and they said they would like to use it on their website for this months nocturnal theme. Agreeing that wherever they used the image (my terms) there would be a direct link to my website which there hasn't been from the start. I didn't even know they used it until I was looking up the website myself.

I don't want to fall out with Anyone, my point is agreeing to terms then not actually agreeing and croppin4 and using the image without finishing our terms of agreement.

Thanks for the help so far. Sorry about the small attachments, haven't quite got the hang of inserting large images from this tablet.

MarkG
5th December 2013, 02:42 PM
MISCELLANEOUS RULES



Should you win a prize, you may be requested to participate in any post-competition publicity that we may require.
By entering the competition, you will retain full ownership of your submission, however you do consent that Olympus can use your images, unedited, in promotional activity for the Olympus Impressions campaign.
You also consent to your image being shared via Olympus social media channels.
Olympus and its partners exclude all liability under these terms, in contract or delict (including negligence) for any loss, damage, costs and/or expenses, loss of profits, goodwill, consequential, indirect or special losses, howsoever caused in connection with the competition.
This competition is promoted by Yomego on behalf of Olympus. Please contact info@olympus-impressions.com (info@olympus-impressions.com) if you have any questions or comments on the competition.
We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions at any point in time.
By entering the Competition, all entrants agree to be bound by these terms and conditions.

§Each month a winning submission will be selected by the Olympus judging panel.
§The winner will receive an Olympus camera from a shortlist of available camera sets.

Bangonthedoortwice
5th December 2013, 02:55 PM
MISCELLANEOUS RULES



Should you win a prize, you may be requested to participate in any post-competition publicity that we may require.
By entering the competition, you will retain full ownership of your submission, however you do consent that Olympus can use your images, unedited, in promotional activity for the Olympus Impressions campaign.
You also consent to your image being shared via Olympus social media channels.
Olympus and its partners exclude all liability under these terms, in contract or delict (including negligence) for any loss, damage, costs and/or expenses, loss of profits, goodwill, consequential, indirect or special losses, howsoever caused in connection with the competition.
This competition is promoted by Yomego on behalf of Olympus. Please contact info@olympus-impressions.com (info@olympus-impressions.com) if you have any questions or comments on the competition.
We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions at any point in time.
By entering the Competition, all entrants agree to be bound by these terms and conditions.

§Each month a winning submission will be selected by the Olympus judging panel.
§The winner will receive an Olympus camera from a shortlist of available camera sets.

But i haven't entered the competition?

photo_owl
5th December 2013, 02:55 PM
MISCELLANEOUS RULES



Should you win a prize, you may be requested to participate in any post-competition publicity that we may require.
By entering the competition, you will retain full ownership of your submission, however you do consent that Olympus can use your images, unedited, in promotional activity for the Olympus Impressions campaign.
You also consent to your image being shared via Olympus social media channels.
Olympus and its partners exclude all liability under these terms, in contract or delict (including negligence) for any loss, damage, costs and/or expenses, loss of profits, goodwill, consequential, indirect or special losses, howsoever caused in connection with the competition.
This competition is promoted by Yomego on behalf of Olympus. Please contact info@olympus-impressions.com (info@olympus-impressions.com) if you have any questions or comments on the competition.
We reserve the right to change the terms and conditions at any point in time.
By entering the Competition, all entrants agree to be bound by these terms and conditions.

§Each month a winning submission will be selected by the Olympus judging panel.
§The winner will receive an Olympus camera from a shortlist of available camera sets.

yes Mark - but as Ashley has explained above he didn't enter the image in the competition but posted it to their Facebook page (which nominally brings it under Facebook's T&Cs in the absence of any specific ones by Olympus UK/FB.......

I'm sure they will take it down and apologise to him for the misunderstanding.

Ian
5th December 2013, 05:23 PM
OK - I have flagged this and hope to get a response tomorrow.

Ian

gregles
5th December 2013, 06:48 PM
OK - I have flagged this and hope to get a response tomorrow.

Ian

Good luck Ian;)

I hope you get a better response than Shirley got:rolleyes:

dr_shiva29
5th December 2013, 11:59 PM
Awesome! Great capture,

Ulfric M Douglas
6th December 2013, 08:44 AM
Subscribing to this, I want to know how it works out in the end.
I feel robbed.

Bangonthedoortwice
6th December 2013, 05:04 PM
Heard nothing as yet. Am I in the wrong here or do you think I am right in thinking whats happened is a little bad?

Mark Thackara
6th December 2013, 05:55 PM
Before we all go off at 90mph daggers drawn, lances lowered and senses switched off, would you mind if did a little checking on this - see if it is a mistake, deliberate or otherwise?

The people running this for us are a big social media agency with a project to bring more engagement and encourage more people to take part in sharing great images so it will be annoying if they have missed due process but perhaps it is only fair to see if we can get an explanation.

We would be mad to do this just to upset everyone. Why on earth do you think we would? I am afraid some of the attitudes on here make me seriously consider whether it is worth supporting the forum any more because believe it or not, we pay for this and I do not mind healthy debate or being told (politely) when we get things wrong but in proportion for goodness sake.

It winds me up when people jump in without stopping to think or giving us a chance to look into things.

Let's find out the facts and then discuss if necessary. If we/they have it wrong, we will deal with it. I have raised it with the agency and will look for a reply on Monday.


Simply disgraceful behaviour.

DavyG
6th December 2013, 06:30 PM
Before we all go off at 90mph daggers drawn, lances lowered and senses switched off, would you mind if did a little checking on this - see if it is a mistake, deliberate or otherwise?

The people running this for us are a big social media agency with a project to bring more engagement and encourage more people to take part in sharing great images so it will be annoying if they have missed due process but perhaps it is only fair to see if we can get an explanation.

We would be mad to do this just to upset everyone. Why on earth do you think we would? I am afraid some of the attitudes on here make me seriously consider whether it is worth supporting the forum any more because believe it or not, we pay for this and I do not mind healthy debate or being told (politely) when we get things wrong but in proportion for goodness sake.

It winds me up when people jump in without stopping to think or giving us a chance to look into things.

Let's find out the facts and then discuss if necessary. If we/they have it wrong, we will deal with it. I have raised it with the agency and will look for a reply on Monday.

Mark,

Hard as it probably is, please don't let this get to you.

I can assure you that your support, efforts and assistance are truly appreciated, it would be a sad day if you stopped supporting and contributing to this forum.

Dave

Ulfric M Douglas
7th December 2013, 11:58 AM
Thanks Mark, a response from an Olympus rep the day after the thread was started : that's great going and a far cry from other forums.
Let's get is sorted out happily, which I'm sure will happen now all parties can communicate with each other.

(The blatant forum closure threat was odd.)

Bangonthedoortwice
7th December 2013, 12:55 PM
We would be mad to do this just to upset everyone. Why on earth do you think we would? I am afraid some of the attitudes on here make me seriously consider whether it is worth supporting the forum any more because believe it or not, we pay for this and I do not mind healthy debate or being told (politely) when we get things wrong but in proportion for goodness sake.

It winds me up when people jump in without stopping to think or giving us a chance to look into things

Steady on, threatening to close the forum because Olympus did something wrong is a little flippant, that would be like me threatening to seek legal action because of what happened.

I'm a regular contributor to Olympus, an advocate who has been featured in the Olympus magazine a few times so I'm not someone who wants to be on bad terms because of this. This matter of using my image before my terms were agreed is wrong, illegal and not respectful at all to me as a photographer.

Kami
7th December 2013, 12:56 PM
Not very happy with the tone of Mark / Olympus' response. Sounds like he's drawing daggers.

I'm afraid the attitude of Olympus representatives makes me seriously consider whether it is worth supporting the Olympus brand by my continued use of their products.

Pipe, smoke, insert other words as appropriate :-) Sorry that you consider closing this community an appropriate sanction.

- Kami !

Kami
7th December 2013, 12:59 PM
Actually, it amounts to bullying. "Keep your mouths quiet or else I'll close your mouths for you".

Westy
7th December 2013, 01:08 PM
Mark is not making threats, but is asking for the opportunity to investigate what has happened. Wanting to understand the facts and correct a problem that may or may not have happened. To be quite honest I would be over the moon for Olympus to use one of my photos.

Kami
7th December 2013, 01:13 PM
"I am afraid some of the attitudes on here make me seriously consider whether it is worth supporting the forum any more because believe it or not, we pay for this"

... sounds like a threat to me, but I'm happy to discuss my interpretation :-)

photo_owl
7th December 2013, 01:37 PM
Steady on, threatening to close the forum because Olympus did something wrong is a little flippant, that would be like me threatening to seek legal action because of what happened.

I'm a regular contributor to Olympus, an advocate who has been featured in the Olympus magazine a few times so I'm not someone who wants to be on bad terms because of this. This matter of using my image before my terms were agreed is wrong, illegal and not respectful at all to me as a photographer.

I didn't interpret that part of Mark's post to be directed at you at all - re-inforced by both the post quoted and the specific wording of that sentence.

StephenL
7th December 2013, 02:13 PM
I think this thread has a danger of getting out of hand. However, as a Moderator, I am reluctant to close it without further consultation because, in my view, that would amount to censorship, and that's the last thing we want or need.

Mark's comments seem to have been misinterpreted by some of the relative newcomers to this forum who may not be aware just how it works. Mark simply stated that, if the personal sniping were to continue, he (corporately) may have to reconsider Olympus' financial contribution to the forum. He said absolutely nothing about "closing it down". What he would like is fair chance to investigate this matter. And depending on the speed of response of third parties, this may take a wee while.

In cases like this, as I think John (Zuiko) has already stated, individual grievances should be made as a direct approach via PM or email.

Bangonthedoortwice
7th December 2013, 02:42 PM
This is a great resource for Olympus users and the community here, just as other manufacturers has their forum that users use, i.e. when purchasing products, consumers consider the after sales support and friendly forums like this encourage people to buy into their products.

lf it were to close, people would just use another forum like the sister site m43 but we don't want that.

I think from frustration of it getting out of hand from some of the comments, Marks' words insinuate things. Let's see what happens. Closing the thread would indicate censorship yes, and in this case (irrelevant from outcome) this matter will be on my website or blog.

www.ashleyduncanphotography.com

StephenL
7th December 2013, 02:44 PM
Indeed you did, John, and thank you. :)

I was primarily responding as Moderator to the suggestion that the thread be closed. :)

Ulfric M Douglas
7th December 2013, 08:51 PM
this matter will be on my website or blog.

www.ashleyduncanphotography.com
Hell man with all these cameras and lenses why are your knee pictures so dire??!

LMGruchy
7th December 2013, 09:07 PM
Gosh, chill, please, folks. :o

Bangonthedoortwice
7th December 2013, 09:54 PM
Hell man with all these cameras and lenses why are your knee pictures so dire??!

That made me laugh! I love my phone and its camera, i think the last knee picture is great anyway so there.

Phill D
8th December 2013, 06:50 AM
Just read your blog so now know what this is all about! Hope the recovery goes well Ashley. Is the plan to go back to the Bahamas when you are fully fit?

Bangonthedoortwice
8th December 2013, 08:34 AM
Thanks Phill D, it's a really long procedure unfortunately so I'm planning on opening a small studio in the new year and utilising all this spare time I have into that. The Bahamas is wonderful, but it's no way a career, maybe I'll go back if things fall flat.

s.macleod
9th December 2013, 02:59 PM
Hi there everyone,

My name is Sam and I am part of the social media agency, Yomego, which works for Olympus on the UK Facebook page. We are incredibly sorry about this situation and we would like to explain what happened so that we can resolve it as quickly as possible.

Over the past few months we have been working on a campaign called Olympus Impressions with the goal to provide a variety of themes to engage photographers over the coming year. At the start of each month we reset the theme and invite members of the Olympus community to provide their own interpretations of the new category.

In order to provide some inspiration, we have been approaching inspiring Olympus photographers and asking to use their photographs across the site to make it easier for others to visualise the type of photos work for the theme.

One of my colleagues noticed Ashley’s great picture and asked him if we had permission to use it across the website. Once it was posted live we contacted Ashley to ask what kind of credit he would like for the image. Unfortunately with the way the website was built, we had no opportunity to add an outgoing link to his website as he had requested, and to do so would require amends to the underlying code which at the moment we can't do for time and budget reasons (credits are possible in some places but not others so we are looking at it for the future). We are incredibly conscious of ensuring that photographers get the recognition they deserve and it is only through a technical inability to do so that we haven’t in this case.

Once we realised we couldn't add credit to the image, we raised an action with our development team to replace it with one from the entries that had now been submitted to the competition. This has taken slightly longer than anticipated due to a technical error, but we are swapping it out as I speak.

Everyone on the team is incredibly sorry to Ashley for this mis-communication and also want to assure everyone on the forum that we take the rights of photographers incredibly seriously. If you have absolutely any questions about Olympus and social media, you are more than welcome to contact me directly on this forum and I will try my best to help.

Once again we hope this hasn’t caused too much offence.

Sam

StephenL
9th December 2013, 03:18 PM
Sam, welcome to the forum. Thank you for responding to the current situation, and coming up with an explanation which I hope will satisfy all parties.

Most of us on this forum are keen Olympus users, with a pride in their equipment and a great desire to help Olympus continue to develop through success. I am sure many of us would be keen to co-operate with you in promoting Olympus, as long as due respect is given to photographers' rights. Of course, any individual negotiations would be subject to private discussion and agreement!

Once again, welcome! Please look through the members' galleries - you never know, you might see something you like! ;)

s.macleod
9th December 2013, 03:29 PM
Thank you for the kind welcome Stephen.

Ashley's image has been removed for the time being, but we are obviously very conscious of the potential issues that this could present in the future.

As such, we are scoping out how we could add the necessary areas on the site to provide full attribution to everyone that submits a picture. Once we have this in place we will let you all know.

Sam

Iansky
9th December 2013, 03:49 PM
What a pleasant surprise, both parties that were directly/indirectly involved in the use of the said photo have posted clear and concise responses on this forum.

That is a very welcome and much appreciated response and it shows that they both have concerns about use of customers photographs as well as their public image and despite Mark being frustrated at some of the comments (mine included no doubt), at least he responded rather than being the hidden face of big business.

I agree that it is difficult to make informed decisions when initially only one half of a story is relayed, but, I would like to think the person relaying it has enough integrity to portray fact not fiction and on that we form our own opinions.

A forum is designed to discuss/vent /exchange and learn and there have been many cases of bad practice that have been stopped by people sharing their experiences and as I stated in my initial response, certain elements of big business do perceive themselves above the law - in this case it seems both Olympus and their contractor involved have displayed honesty and integrity in thier published responses and for that we should be grateful.

It also demonstrates that this forum has the ability to "get to the right people".

Long may that continue.

Zuiko
9th December 2013, 03:58 PM
Sam, thanks for coming on the forum to give a direct response on this issue, it is very much appreciated. :)

s.macleod
9th December 2013, 04:08 PM
No problem, glad to sort this out.

I can't message Ashley on this forum as I haven't posted enough, so we have contacted him via Facebook and hopefully can do something to make it up to him for this oversight.

Sam

Iansky
9th December 2013, 04:38 PM
Apologies to both Sam & Mark,

I did intend to welcome you both to the site so humble apologies for forgetting this.

It is great to have facts from "the horses mouth" rather than supposition from those of us not so well informed and I for one hope that you will not be strangers on the site as your presence will be very valued.

Thanks
Ian

Ulfric M Douglas
9th December 2013, 06:59 PM
Welcome Sam, thanks for posting.

If you can clarify this for me I'll understand it ;
One of my colleagues noticed Ashley’s great picture and asked him if we had permission to use it across the website, which at the time we did.
Only because I genuinely don't understand the sentence.

s.macleod
9th December 2013, 07:17 PM
Welcome Sam, thanks for posting.

If you can clarify this for me I'll understand it ;

Only because I genuinely don't understand the sentence.

Hi Ulfric,

Sorry, I'll try and explain it better. We asked Ashley via Facebook if we could use his image on the Olympus Impressions site and we were told that it would be ok provided we credited him. On the 3rd of December we clarified what kind of credit he would prefer and once Ashley fed back to us on his preference, the member of my team that responded to the query passed that to our development team.

Unfortunately, the website hasn't been designed to allow a caption underneath the images (we are working to rectify this) and the resource to change it wasn't immediately available.

Based on the fact we couldn't provide the credit we said we would, we then chose to remove the image and use another one, but due to an error with the way the new image was uploaded, this didn't happen immediately.

As some others have pointed out in this thread, we absolutely adore the picture and provided credit when we used the image across the Olympus UK Facebook page, including one directly linking to Ashley's site.

We know that this in no way makes up for a massive oversight on our end, but we do hope that you all realise this was a mistake and we intended no harm.

Sam

Bangonthedoortwice
9th December 2013, 07:58 PM
Hi guys,

I too would like to welcome Sam to this forum and say thank you for respectfully dealing with this particular forum thread personally and in a friendly manner.

Before I respond fully and publicly on this matter, Sam and myself are going to have a chat about this tomorrow privately and we will keep everyone informed on the outcome.

Thanks for your help.

Bangonthedoortwice
21st December 2013, 05:25 PM
Hi everyone,

Sorry in the delay about responding to this. I have been in and out of hospital with some complications with my recent surgery but i am on the mend.

Before i continue, i just want to add that this is a business matter, it's not personal and i apologies that it will be quite a long post.

I have loved using Olympus cameras and an after thought was that i wanted to discuss this privately with Olympus/Social media page after i started this thread. Unfortunately it has not been resolved, so as i stated i am now letting you know publicly exactly what happened with supporting evidence.

Since i have been in correspondence with Sam about this matter, (it has been a very polite and apologetic communication which was nice) it still doesn't make amends to actually what happened to me as a photographer. I disagree about the way the events unfolded.

Sam amended his first response on here after we spoke and i disagreed with 'how the events unfolded' as they are false, misleading and incorrect so he agreed that he should edit his original post, which he did.

It was insinuated that i had given permission for it to be used and that THEY could enter me into the competition "when it goes live" this is the first part which is misleading.

Skip to the attachments if you don't wish to read my response below, it's all there to be read in black and white.



One of my colleagues noticed Ashley’s great picture and asked him if we had permission to use it across the website. Once it was posted live we contacted Ashley to ask what kind of credit he would like for the image.

This is factually incorrect. I never gave any permission to use the photo.

I asked for a more clear concise answer;

"do you mean, do i want to enter the competition?" (see attachment 27th Nov)

Then they followed up with on the 27th Nov;

"We wondered if you mind us using the photo as an example on the Impressions website as an example of nocturnal photography? and of course enter the competition when it goes live!"

To which i responded on the 28th Of Nov, "okay, it would be an great honour. Do you want it to be used just on your impressions website or for social media websites and prints? also for how long? will there be a credit/link to my work?"

To me this is saying that they recommend i enter the competition, not.. Olympus will enter it for you.

As you can all see, at this stage i want to know how they will use the image, (if it's not in the competition and Olympus want to use the image on the front page of their website for their benefit, then a photographer should profit from this too as it is not bound by their terms and conditions they set out as Mark has mentioned) this is clearly copyright infringement.

I would value any opinions on this from the forum if you think i am wrong here.

Following this since our correspondence, they said they have entered my image in their competition. This sounds bizarre to me, they have no right to do this? see attachment again, i am clearly not saying enter me into the competition, i have checked the entries and my photo is not there when i looked anyway. I feel that they just took the photo, they were using it without permission until i had to get in touch again and asked what is going on? If i never did this and was back in hospital, the image would still be up and i would be none the wiser.

I never had a response to this matter until December 2nd but by this time they had taken the image, edited it (cropped out my watermark) and was to be used on their front page without my consent and/or credit even though they came back to me saying they would "have a credit anywhere the image would be used", which it was not for a week, until i got back in touch and asked them what is going on?

Please see attachments below, it is in black and white as i cannot find the direct link for anyone to see on the Olympusuk FB page anymore. (!?)


3409

3410

3411

3412

3413

As a gesture of goodwill, Sam has offered to have my image up on their FB page and have a credit linked to my website, which i have politely declined as i now want to look into this further.

Comments feedback welcome,

StephenL
21st December 2013, 05:38 PM
I"m not at all sure that this should be discussed on the forum. It's surely a private matter between two parties. It sounds as if one party is trying to get public support for something that we the public will never know for sure the truth from both sides.

Bangonthedoortwice
21st December 2013, 06:27 PM
I am clearly just responding to the statement that had been given, with supporting evidence.
This isn't a case of "Who's telling the truth", its there for everyone to read in the attachments. I have also had requests from the forum to respond to the thread which I said I would do.

Zuiko
21st December 2013, 07:43 PM
Unfortunately your attachments are too small for me to read but based on this from a previous post of yours:-

"We wondered if you mind us using the photo as an example on the Impressions website as an example of nocturnal photography? and of course enter the competition when it goes live!"

To which i responded on the 28th Of Nov, "okay, it would be an great honour. Do you want it to be used just on your impressions website or for social media websites and prints? also for how long? will there be a credit/link to my work?"

I think it was quite reasonable for the agency to interpret that you did wish to enter the competition and for them to enter it on your behalf as they already had the picture.

There are, of course, other issues concerning level of use, links and credits but it seems to me that these stem mainly from misunderstandings and that the agency are attempting to redress the situation, although clearly not to your satisfaction.

However, as you have indicated that you wish to take the matter further and by implication that could involve legalities, I agree with Stephen that it is unwise to continue discussions on this forum.

photo_owl
21st December 2013, 07:54 PM
my opinion is based purely on what's been posted by Ashley, and 'everything' is in these sentences

""We wondered if you mind us using the photo as an example on the Impressions website as an example of nocturnal photography? and of course enter the competition when it goes live!"

To which i responded on the 28th Of Nov, "okay, it would be an great honour. Do you want it to be used just on your impressions website or for social media websites and prints? also for how long? will there be a credit/link to my work?"

Was it reasonable for Oly (or their agents in this case) to interpret this as an entry to their competition and that they could use the image on the impressions website? Opinion - yes.

Is it clear from the continuation that the 'okay' was conditional, and of a professional nature? Opinion - no.

After that it's a matter of taking appropriate action to resolve the now obvious mis-understanding. The correct steps were taken, and although there was a delay in implementation there has been an explanation and apology in relation to that.

David M
21st December 2013, 08:14 PM
I'm finding it very entertaining, I'm waiting for the handbags to start flying. It's also a good example of how not to deal with such inquiries and the consequences.

Bangonthedoortwice
21st December 2013, 08:19 PM
Was it reasonable for Oly (or their agents in this case) to interpret this as an entry to their competition and that they could use the image on the impressions website? Opinion - yes.

Is it clear from the continuation that the 'okay' was conditional, and of a professional nature? Opinion - no.

After that it's a matter of taking appropriate action to resolve the now obvious mis-understanding. The correct steps were taken, and although there was a delay in implementation there has been an explanation and apology in relation to that.

Thanks for you input. Before it went live, we were discussing the terms. "Okay" meaning I understand that I could enter this image in the competition but Olympus doesn't go round their fb page entering everyones images to their own competition do they? I doubt they do.

It wasn't agreed, our terms of use hadn't been clarified or met nor did they have the right to crop it and remove the watermark without consent. It wasn't until after the event I found they still hadn't done anything about the image.

Is clear I didn't understand as I asked what they meant by using the image, then further on they basically say I SHOULD enter the image to the competition when it goes live. I never entered it, so no one else has a right to do so nor am I bound by any terms of conditions.

The attachments open up large on my screen, I do not know why they don't on here but I have written it out word for word anyhow. If you want screen shots I could email them also.

StephenL
21st December 2013, 08:25 PM
I think what it boils down to is interpretation of statements and deeds. As this could easily turn "legal" I feel strongly that comments in this forum could be interpreted as trial by media - the media in this case being forum members.

Zuiko
21st December 2013, 08:35 PM
I think what it boils down to is interpretation of statements and deeds. As this could easily turn "legal" I feel strongly that comments in this forum could be interpreted as trial by media - the media in this case being forum members.

Yes, I think it has now reached the stage that negotiations between the two parties should continue in private in case the dispute escalates to legal action being taken. I think we all get the gist of the issue by now and further discussion won't resolve the matter. Therefore I am closing this thread.