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View Full Version : Em1 blurry photos help


bartender1981
2nd December 2013, 08:34 PM
Hi....me and a lot of italian users of em1 had this problem,from 1/30 to 1/250 we get blurried pics handhelded is1 auto....
I've tested with all combination of shutter delay o any other combination...all the same..
At 1/10 tack sharp ,at 1/160 blurried...tested with 10+ lenses...

here some crops from raw

http://www.flickr.com/photos/melodycafe81/11177240344/in/set-72157638291707853

Any other report from someone? thanks from Italia

Phill D
17th December 2013, 05:33 AM
Have you talked to Olympus about this? If so can you post their reply please.

Gwyver
17th December 2013, 07:28 AM
I think there have been similar comments on this forum some weeks ago. It may be that the IS response to "Autopanning" is too sensitive.

Set your camera to IS1 and check if the images are sharper. I realise this is not a fix for the underlying problem - but at least you should get better pictures.

photo_owl
17th December 2013, 10:47 AM
Hi....me and a lot of italian users of em1 had this problem,from 1/30 to 1/250 we get blurried pics handhelded is1 auto....
I've tested with all combination of shutter delay o any other combination...all the same..
At 1/10 tack sharp ,at 1/160 blurried...tested with 10+ lenses...

here some crops from raw

http://www.flickr.com/photos/melodycafe81/11177240344/in/set-72157638291707853

Any other report from someone? thanks from Italia

I'm sorry but I can only agree with Phil that you should refer your issue direct to Olympus who can look into it properly.

You posted 2 weeks ago under the title of shutter shock and now this; my own experiences aren't relevant as a retort (although the camera now stays permenantly in IS1 Auto) but various reviews specifically went looking for issues in this area after experiences with the E-M5 and couldn't find a problem - as many users.

You have taken the time to produce some solid evidence of your problem so take it up with Olympus please - and do post the result in due course.

james n
19th December 2013, 12:18 PM
I'll be interested in your findings. My E-M1 has been returned as i was getting consistently sharper shots with my E-M5. Played about with various things (Firmware 1.1, setting IS to 1) but still not consistently good.

See here http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30270

James

Angus
20th December 2013, 05:53 PM
When I read this post my heart sank a bit...

I've owned my E-M1 for about 2 months and have noticed some shots (with the ostensibly sharp Olympus 12-40mm f2.8 "Pro" zoom lens) seemed less sharp than I would have expected. Initially I put it down to poor technique but then it recently started to occur to me that the IBIS was doing it's job very well on shots taken handheld at lower shutter speeds, BUT at higher speeds up (especially in the 1/100th - 1/200th range) I was noticing shots which consistently seem less than tack sharp. And this with stationary subjects and even with the IBIS on… i.e. conditions in which I would expect increasing sharpness as I increase shutter speed (whereas I am seeing less sharpness as I increase shutter speed through the above range).

A bit of web research later and I'm now starting to encounter similar stories from other owners. Through my research the leading theory is "Shutter Shock". There's quite a few articles on this for example:

http://cameraergonomics.blogspot.dk/2012/09/micro-43-shutter-shock-revisited-omd-em.html

Based on articles like this I did some more robust testing, including some tripod-mounted shots all of which seem to affirm there is a slight reduction in sharpness in the above range of "medium" shutter speed settings.

As recommended in some articles I have also tried playing with settings like the "Anti-Shock" setting (Gears Menu, E) which some suggest can help but I don't notice a significant benefit. (and - critically - even the 1/8th second delay setting considerably undermines the responsiveness which was supposed to be one of the main benefits of the camera).

All in all it troubles me rather, not least because there's enough "chatter" about this on the web to lead me to think those of us who are noticing this aren't imagining it...

Melaka
20th December 2013, 07:47 PM
As mentioned in my Krugerambles posts I was disappointed with the focus of some pix taken on safari and am watching this and the related thread with interest.

David Morison
20th December 2013, 08:47 PM
I had all this when my EM1 was new, also having an EM5 to compare it with. I remembered that I had the same issues when the EM5 and E5 were new and put it down to a "running in" period, but most here thought that improbable. Now my EM1 performs impeccably even though I have not changed my technique, I can keep IS1 on without any problems at all shutter speeds hand-held. Nothing scientific about this experience, suffice to say it is what I have come to expect with Olympus digital cameras.

David

Iansky
20th December 2013, 09:27 PM
I had the same problem with my EM1 and tried a few options including changing IBIS to IBIS1, it helped but did not cure.

I downloaded the new firmware and it appears to have resolved the image so worth trying that to see if it helps.

Good luck.

Angus
21st December 2013, 10:14 AM
I had all this when my EM1 was new, also having an EM5 to compare it with. I remembered that I had the same issues when the EM5 and E5 were new and put it down to a "running in" period, but most here thought that improbable. Now my EM1 performs impeccably even though I have not changed my technique, I can keep IS1 on without any problems at all shutter speeds hand-held. Nothing scientific about this experience, suffice to say it is what I have come to expect with Olympus digital cameras.

David

Approx how many shots have you taken with your camera.? I'm somewhere around 1500 and still experiencing this.

Angus
21st December 2013, 10:36 AM
I downloaded the new firmware and it appears to have resolved the image so worth trying that to see if it helps.

Good luck.

Firmware not the cure in my case at least - all my more rigorous tests on this have been since I installed the latest firmware upgrade.

Lets' be clear that we are talking about something fairly subtle here and easy to attribute to other causes, but in the mentioned shutter range there are definitely more shots which lack a pin-sharp quality even in situations this shouldn't occur (static subject, IBIS on). And not just visible pixel peeping at 100% - even viewed at a small size - i.e. sized to fill the screen on my 13" Macbook Pro. I just feel a lot of images in this range lack a sense of crispness. It's not like a front or back focusing issue - the plane of focus looks correct - but there is a sense of micro-blurring in the image which smears detail.

BTW, before buying the E-M1 I "test drove" a Fuji X100s for a few days (ended up going with the E-M1 as I wanted the versatility, lens options, faster focusing, WiFi, etc). Still have the X100s photos I took in Aperture and I have just revisited them. The X100s doesn't always nail focus perfectly either but overall the images I took with it are noticeably more consistently sharp through that medium shutter speed range than I'm seeing on the E-M1. And remember the X100s doesn't have IBIS. The conclusion I draw is that my technique is certainly capable of crisp shots in the 160th-200th second range, but something in the E-M1 is subtly undermining that, whether I have the IBIS on or off.

bartender1981
1st February 2014, 05:31 PM
Hi from Italy!Until now I tried 14 copies of em1,my local shop ask me to test some new em1 that arrives in their shop ,bacause in amonth 5 of them were sent to olympus service for my same problem (double image).

All the em1's I tried was a lot less sharp in 100% crop than em5,with any combo of shutter delay etc....
My em1 was sent for first,2 weeks later come back,redoing the test the problem is a bit resolved,the detail is quite costant without doble image in horizontal plane,but even after 2000 pics with a lot of sharp lenses none of the em1 files can touch the em5 clarity and detail,none!
I mean very accurate test,comparing them side by side,and the em1 files give the impression to have a little frequency that move the perfect crisp detail that my em5's have...

The service tell nothing to my shop,they only write in the schedule report that they re installed firmware and reset factory settings...


I return my em1 to the shop and they give me back my money,but I'm quite sure if you compare the same shot/lens with an em5 you find a lot of difference in 100% crop

NB using a SOLID tripod and is off the result is perfect,like em5,but handhelded the problem is always present ...


Try yourself,at 1/10 and 1/60 1/125 1/160 ang tell me the result !

Glee
1st February 2014, 06:15 PM
Hi from Italy!Until now I tried 14 copies of em1,my local shop ask me to test some new em1 that arrives in their shop ,bacause in amonth 5 of them were sent to olympus service for my same problem (double image).

All the em1's I tried was a lot less sharp in 100% crop than em5,with any combo of shutter delay etc....
My em1 was sent for first,2 weeks later come back,redoing the test the problem is a bit resolved,the detail is quite costant without doble image in horizontal plane,but even after 2000 pics with a lot of sharp lenses none of the em1 files can touch the em5 clarity and detail,none!
I mean very accurate test,comparing them side by side,and the em1 files give the impression to have a little frequency that move the perfect crisp detail that my em5's have...

The service tell nothing to my shop,they only write in the schedule report that they re installed firmware and reset factory settings...


I return my em1 to the shop and they give me back my money,but I'm quite sure if you compare the same shot/lens with an em5 you find a lot of difference in 100% crop

NB using a SOLID tripod and is off the result is perfect,like em5,but handhelded the problem is always present ...


Try yourself,at 1/10 and 1/60 1/125 1/160 ang tell me the result !

Hi, I was unable to reproduce the blurry ness at the above shutter speed, this is perplexing as it does suggest there are other variables at play that in turn suggests it may not be a problem that is inherent to all em1s.

I don't usually do much pixel peeping, however having read the above I find I am so paranoid I am constantly checking for the issue. Ps I do shoot both raw and jpg, but I rarely do pp if the jpg is good, and fir the most part they are good.

This did prompt me to look more closely at the ORF files for the blur, but I found non. I wonder if the blur is present on both raw and jpg for those who are experiencing the issue?

Greytop
1st February 2014, 06:26 PM
Just had a play with mine and it seems fine over that shutter speed range.

brian1208
1st February 2014, 06:41 PM
No blurring at all at those shutter speed with the EM-1

With my EM-5 I did a statistical analysis of over 1000 images and showed clearly that, with that body, I was getting a peak of shutter shock blurred images at around 1/160th with a Gaussian tail that ended at around 1/30th sec (sharp below that) and 1/320th (sharp above that)

It does seem to be body / lens specific and showed sample to sample variation as I was seeing it with my EM-5 but most weren't, using the "same" lenses (can't be exactly the same because of sample to sample variation)

Phill D
1st February 2014, 08:03 PM
Anyone care to enlighten me as to what shutter shock actually is. I just googled it and there seems to be a lot of complaining about blurred images at around 1/160s but I didn't find anything with a very good explanation as to what the actual phenomenon was and it's cause.

brian1208
1st February 2014, 08:48 PM
You know what Mirror Slap was with a DLSR, well this is like shutter slap which, it appears, can cause internal vibrations / movement resulting in blurred images (often with double lines on sharp edges)

here's a reasonable reference to the effect (which seems to be greater in some camera bodies than others, not be a consistent phenomenon and can even vary depending on hand-holding techniques ) http://cameraergonomics.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/micro-43-shutter-shock-revisited-omd-em.html

As I said, I was able to prove the existence of the effect statistically with my copy of the EM-1, much to my surprise as I had assumed it was all BS and that my analysis would confirm this for me (but as my old prof always said, you can't ignore the data and sometimes you have to give up on a pet theory :D )


Here's another paper I found looking at this effect with the Sony A7R

http://www.josephholmes.com/news-sonya7rshuttershake.html

David Morison
1st February 2014, 09:30 PM
Try yourself,at 1/10 and 1/60 1/125 1/160 ang tell me the result !

Tried my EM1 at all shutter speeds from 1/10th to 1/640th and apart from the obvious difference due to ISO setting I am completely happy with the IQ, no sign of any softness. This was with two different 4/3 lenses, not tried with m4/3 lenses yet.

David

Simon
1st February 2014, 10:13 PM
Hi,
I have had this problem when using the EM-1 with a first generation 14-42 m.zuiko lens. The blurring was very noticeable at speeds of 1/60th to 1/250 - regardless if IS setting. This is the only m. zuiko lens I own, and I have not tried this lens out on another camera, though at other shutter speeds it produces sharp images. However with my ED 12-60 and the mmf3 I get sharp pictures throughout the shutter speed range on the EM 1. So I'm scratching my head a bit over this, and so far put it down to a vibration somewhere caused by the mechanical movement in the lens due to an incorrect signal being sent to it at the moment of release. But I'm not technical and its just a guess.


Simon.

Phill D
1st February 2014, 10:13 PM
Thanks Brian those links were very informative. I've just looked back at some images I took a while ago of deer that I thought were a bit soft at the time and guess what shot at around 1/160 to 1/200. Mind you there were others taken at the same time of trees that definitely were fine. Haven't thought any shots were soft since so maybe David's running in theory is operating here too.

brian1208
1st February 2014, 10:23 PM
as far as I can see from my own tests and reading the results of the more reasoned input from others its a probabilistic thing, as witness the fact that I got a more or less classic Gaussian distribution of "shaken" images with the greatest frequency / probability of occurrence at 1/160th

Even at that shutter speed not all were blurry but they were more likely to be than at 1/60th or 1/200th and they were never blurry outside the tails of the distribution
I don't know that the precise cause (or causes) will ever be nailed but the preventative measures are well known so, in my opinion its not a "Problem" merely something to be aware of

David Morison
2nd February 2014, 10:49 AM
One thing that occurred to me is that I know I am personally responsible for some of the few blurred images I get. I have a tendency to "stab" at the shutter button, despite all the small arms training I have had, and this sometimes leads to a less than sharp image. I am one who has grown up without touch screen focus but since StephenL's thread on focus stacking I have been trying out a few images for a friend's planning application using this facility. Of course it is not always possible to use this method but it certainly does reduce any operator movement that could cause blur. Probably not relevant to this thread but I thought it worth mentioning.

David

Mauro Matacchione
3rd February 2014, 02:25 PM
I'm from Italy but I don't think this problem is to be addressed to Italy in any way.

Tried 1/10 1/60 1/125 1/160 with my 12-60mm 4/3 lens and i've had no sign of blurriness or "shutter shock" as you call it :)

bartender1981
5th February 2014, 12:48 AM
can you post a 100% crop
where detail look very sharp with em1?

Mauro Matacchione
5th February 2014, 08:31 PM
This is a 100% crop on the right

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vsut23h4dnczwu/export.jpg

shot with 12-60mm at 12mm f2.8 ISO 200 1/1250sec

bartender1981
6th February 2014, 12:53 PM
I mean a shot in the range of 1/60 1/320