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jamsa
28th October 2013, 10:07 PM
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd119/gambo48/Screenshot_2013-10-28-21-50-21-1_zps129bba75.png
I wonder if this is genuine? Or something to warn others about?

bredman
28th October 2013, 10:54 PM
Here it is. Extra discount for a direct bank transfer. And listed as In Stock :eek:. I never heard of Panamoz. Also an odd price on the 12-50 kit.


http://panamoz.com/index.php/digital-cameras/olympus/olympus-om-d-e-m1-mirrorless-micro-four-thirds-digital-camera-with-m-zuiko-digital-ed-12-40mm-f28-lens-kit.html

Harbrimar
28th October 2013, 11:12 PM
Interesting - they are a far east based company which seem to have a good reputation in UK. See http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3157839 particularly recent posts toward end of thread. If I did not have to rely upon trading in my GH3 I would seriously consider using them.

Ian
29th October 2013, 09:27 AM
You won't get a free grip or MMF-3 with this deal.

Ian

Stu
29th October 2013, 09:43 AM
It is quite possible Olympus UK will not do any repair work on the camera under guarantee. They don't have to. At the very best you will only have a one year warranty and might even be expected to ship it back to the far east yourself. You would not have the option of Olympus UK collecting the camera from your home for repair for the next 2.5 years free of charge.

You also need to be very careful with any companies like this that their customer reviews are real and not fake. How easy is it to chase your order if it does not turn up? Do they have a UK phone number? Basically the camera will be a grey import.

Chevvyf1
29th October 2013, 09:51 AM
It is quite possible Olympus UK will not do any repair work on the camera under guarantee. They don't have to. At the very best you will only have a one year warranty and might even be expected to ship it back to the far east yourself. You would not have the option of Olympus UK collecting the camera from your home for repair for the next 2.5 years free of charge.

You also need to be very careful with any companies like this that their customer reviews are real and not fake. How easy is it to chase your order if it does not turn up? Do they have a UK phone number? Basically the camera will be a grey import.


NOW what was the name of that "Outfit" Trading Standards could not prosecute two years ago - selling ??? E-5's - it "appeared" ass a UK operation but was actually in ? China or ??? and lots of people lost their money :(

Remember "If it looks too good to be TRUE, it probably is" :(

Ian
29th October 2013, 09:59 AM
It is quite possible Olympus UK will not do any repair work on the camera under guarantee. They don't have to. At the very best you will only have a one year warranty and might even be expected to ship it back to the far east yourself. You would not have the option of Olympus UK collecting the camera from your home for repair for the next 2.5 years free of charge.

You also need to be very careful with any companies like this that their customer reviews are real and not fake. How easy is it to chase your order if it does not turn up? Do they have a UK phone number? Basically the camera will be a grey import.

I don't think this is correct as bodies and lenses have an international warranty. The length of the warrant can differ depending on who you purchased the camera from sometimes.

Ian

bredman
29th October 2013, 01:23 PM
There are risks but for anyone prepared to do a direct bank transfer the 12-40 comes almost for free. Thats going to be tempting for some. Any out of warranty problems won't be an issue as you'll still be quids in (probably lol).

Interesting that they can ship them here and pay the duties for that price. Also, some of the lenses are well over priced - the silver Oly 12/2 for example.

jamsa
29th October 2013, 02:06 PM
It was found high up on a Google search... Ie one of the sponsored links I is probably going to catch a lot of folk bbrowsing for the camera at a risk....

jamsa
2nd November 2013, 08:59 AM
Enjoy the bargain! ;-)

byegad
2nd November 2013, 09:13 AM
Hello,

I'm new to this forum but just wanted to share my experience of buying E-M1 + mZD12-40mm from Panamoz.
I ordered the kit on Tuesday afternoon. I've paid via Paypal (1450) but they didn't charged me straight away, it was only authorisation of the payment. The next day I got an e-mail with UPS tracking number and the money has been taken from my account. I got the camera and lens yesterday afternoon. The invoice on the outside of the box states 'Sample toy accessory' worth $69 ;-) Inside I've found a Panamoz warranty card (2 years) with reference nr. In case of a repair/exchange I balieve one has to send the equipment back to Panamoz UK contact address and from there is't being send back to HK for repair/replacement.
Anyway I'm a happy customer now :-D


Kind regards,

Bartek


See underlined!
And if HMRC read this you'll be charged the necessary duties, which will really bump up the costs!

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 09:34 AM
I know of at least one person who got his within 4 days and another who has ordered.

Oh and me! I have ordered as I want a want a second EM1 body and to try out the 12 - 40 against my Panasonic 12 - 35.

With a saving of nearly £600 it has to be worth a go.

As Ian says the warranty which is also two years is international so there won't be any problems should it go wrong.

Regards

Chris

bilbo
2nd November 2013, 09:38 AM
See underlined!
And if HMRC read this you'll be charged the necessary duties, which will really bump up the costs!290 VAT. No import duty from HK.

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 09:44 AM
Price includes VAT.

Regards

Chris

bilbo
2nd November 2013, 09:57 AM
Price includes VAT.

Regards

ChrisHi Chris.

Well yes, that's what it says on the website, but how would HMRC collect that from HK? My guess is that HMRC would come after the importer (ie our friend Bartek) for the VAT element. There has apparently been an incorrect, maybe fraudulent, customs declaration too - how HMRC might view this I don't know.

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 10:01 AM
Hi Brian,

Oh well, I guess you pays your money and takes your choice.

I have bought a lot from HK and similar locations and to date never had a problem.

As also mentioned I have a friend who has bought this deal and it arrived in 4 days with no additional charges.

Plus there are many companies operating this way without a problem.

Best regards

Chris

paullus
2nd November 2013, 10:18 AM
You won't get a free grip or MMF-3 with this deal.

Ian


Hello,

I'm new to this forum but just wanted to share my experience of buying E-M1 + mZD12-40mm from Panamoz.
I ordered the kit on Tuesday afternoon. I've paid via Paypal (1450) but they didn't charged me straight away, it was only authorisation of the payment. The next day I got an e-mail with UPS tracking number and the money has been taken from my account. I got the camera and lens yesterday afternoon. The invoice on the outside of the box states 'Sample toy accessory' worth $69 ;-) Inside I've found a Panamoz warranty card (2 years) with reference nr. In case of a repair/exchange I balieve one has to send the equipment back to Panamoz UK contact address and from there is't being send back to HK for repair/replacement.
Anyway I'm a happy customer now :-D

Kind regards,

Bartek

This is starting to stink. The E-M1 12-40 kit is now available through companies such as Amazon and Panamoz who are selling it at much cheaper prices. At the same time mugs like me have paid as much as 572.49 more and are still waiting. The thing is with Amazon though is they have a price promise for pre orders. If the price is less on release than originally advertised they honour the lower price.
Ian you point out that the free grip and adapter won't be available with these cheaper deals. To buy them separately from well known online stores would only cost 348 still saving me 224.49
So can we expect a discount from Olympus? Here's hoping.

There is something morally wrong about this. How can Olympus allow these discounts before people who've paid full price well in advance get their orders?

Steve

Stu
2nd November 2013, 11:42 AM
See underlined!
And if HMRC read this you'll be charged the necessary duties, which will really bump up the costs!

Sooner or later HMRC will catch up with the company. The process from there is to go through the sales records and then go after the buyers. They can chase you years later for the duties and do.

Stu
2nd November 2013, 11:47 AM
All it would take is for a UK based importer/distributer to tip off HMRC. You are not getting the camera cheap. You are just not paying the import duties. The import duties are higher than 20% VAT as well.

bilbo
2nd November 2013, 11:51 AM
All it would take is for a UK based importer/distributer to tip off HMRC. You are not getting the camera cheap. You are just not paying the import duties. The import duties are higher than 20% VAT as well.There are no import duties applicable on this equipment imported from Hong Kong. Just 20% VAT is due.

Stu
2nd November 2013, 11:52 AM
A lot of these companies do not supply the official paperwork though. This is what happened to someone I know who purchased a E5 from a similar company. It came with no official guarantee paperwork from Olympus. For that you had to send it back to the online retailer or their UK address which kept on changing and vanishing. At one point it was a private house on the IOW.

Stu
2nd November 2013, 11:59 AM
There are no import duties applicable on this equipment imported from Hong Kong. Just 20% VAT is due.

The poster who received a camera from this retailer said this:

"The invoice on the outside of the box states 'Sample toy accessory' worth $69 ;-)"

They are avioding import duty into the UK. Hong Kong might not charge import/export duty but the UK do when it comes in.

Stu
2nd November 2013, 12:04 PM
Hi Chris.

Well yes, that's what it says on the website, but how would HMRC collect that from HK? My guess is that HMRC would come after the importer (ie our friend Bartek) for the VAT element. There has apparently been an incorrect, maybe fraudulent, customs declaration too - how HMRC might view this I don't know.

They can actually turn up at your house for the money or send the paperwork in the post.

bilbo
2nd November 2013, 12:06 PM
They are avioding import duty into the UK. Hong Kong might not charge import/export duty but the UK do when it comes in.Do some research. There is no import duty when importing a camera like this from Hong Kong. Just VAT. Period.

//discussion

Ulfric M Douglas
2nd November 2013, 12:20 PM
There is something morally wrong about this. How can Olympus allow these discounts before people who've paid full price well in advance get their orders?
Olympus get (approx) the same money for their product whether sold by Panamoz from HongKong or sold by Olympus from their UK website, however international exchange rates will have an effect.

The morally wrong part should simply be the huge amounts of money stolen from us by our government on everything we buy and sell.

Ian
2nd November 2013, 12:47 PM
Do some research. There is no import duty when importing a camera like this from Hong Kong. Just VAT. Period.

//discussion

Really? That isn't what my research indicates. If you are in Hong Kong, which is a free port, you may not have to pay import duty. But I'm pretty sure you do if importing to the UK from anywhere outside the EU, including HK.

If I am wrong - please let point me to the evidence.

Ian

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 01:41 PM
From
Import duty & taxes when importing into United Kingdom

Quote:
"Some products, such as Laptops, Mobile Phones, Digital cameras and Video Game consoles, are duty free."

Not that difficult to find on the interweb.

Regards

Chris

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 01:48 PM
Here you go

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 01:51 PM
Hmm, that's tiny following forum rules.

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 01:57 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/C6REW/skitch.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/C6REW/media/skitch.png.html)

magicaxeman
2nd November 2013, 02:37 PM
Grey import, if you get caught its 4% import duty, even from HK + vat @20% on the full price inc import duty and the shipping costs.

No back up or warranty with Olympus, no pro service, no freebies or offers.

Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, even at that price.

DerekW
2nd November 2013, 02:38 PM
B&H here I come <g>

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 02:41 PM
Oh dear, some people cannot read!

NO import tax, I even copied it for you.

NO shipping costs, they are born by the seller.

Warranty is worldwide.

Already got the freebies this is a 2nd EM1 for me.

Regards

Chris

bilbo
2nd November 2013, 04:09 PM
Really? That isn't what my research indicates. If you are in Hong Kong, which is a free port, you may not have to pay import duty. But I'm pretty sure you do if importing to the UK from anywhere outside the EU, including HK.

If I am wrong - please let point me to the evidence.

IanSee Chris' post #31 at 01:57PM. If you don't fancy using that 3rd party calculator, you can find the same information on the .gov website but it's harder to winkle out.

EDIT: The calculator is here: http://www.dutycalculator.com/

byegad
2nd November 2013, 04:16 PM
A careful read of this, suggests that it is a lottery.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&propertyType=document&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014#P140_10358

The fact that the item was labelled incorrectly both in value and description is something of a give away IMHO.

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 05:04 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that people act like they are still in a school play ground trying to get one up on others.

Or maybe I am trying to talk to people who are still at school? Of course I have no idea of your age.

READ and digest. Photographic equipment is NOT subject to any import tax.

Regards

Chris

MarkG
2nd November 2013, 05:09 PM
Import duty is fairly small I think in general under 10%. But the vat of 20% does apply?

StephenL
2nd November 2013, 06:46 PM
Just to be pedantic, a camera lens attracts duty from HK. According to that same calculator. As does a camera which can record video.

bredman
2nd November 2013, 07:07 PM
Isn't import duty just a couple % and only applies over £150+. Even if applicable it's small cost compared to the VAT.


edit: it's £135.01 +. The fee is waived if £9 or less.

StephenL
2nd November 2013, 07:16 PM
True, but it's evasion none the less, and HM Customs don't like evasion, no matter how small. That's if you get caught. You need to weigh up the probabilities. It's the deceptive description which could lead to problems.

bredman
2nd November 2013, 07:31 PM
Aye. If it gets through just take the goods and keep schtum. Too many folk out there that love policing other peoples actions because they've nowt better to do or are a misery pants. Live and let live i say.

When they start opening our personal mail we will be far worse off.

byegad
2nd November 2013, 07:57 PM
It never ceases to amaze me that people act like they are still in a school play ground trying to get one up on others.

Or maybe I am trying to talk to people who are still at school? Of course I have no idea of your age.

READ and digest. Photographic equipment is NOT subject to any import tax.

Regards

Chris


Perfectly true but it does qualify for the VAT, on the item, shipping and any insurance! You may not like the answer but attempting to play the man and not the ball is a measure of the strength, or lack of it, of your position.

If I'm proved to be wrong:-
1. I'll apologise, nobody is infallible.
2. I'll claim back the fees I got landed with last year for a similar purchase.

However, sadly, I'm pretty sure I'm right. Sorry.

G2EWS
2nd November 2013, 08:10 PM
Perfectly true but it does qualify for the VAT, on the item, shipping and any insurance! You may not like the answer but attempting to play the man and not the ball is a measure of the strength, or lack of it, of your position.

If I'm proved to be wrong:-
1. I'll apologise, nobody is infallible.
2. I'll claim back the fees I got landed with last year for a similar purchase.

However, sadly, I'm pretty sure I'm right. Sorry.

Having studied law for 7 years, let me explain something!

If the seller has paid the vat and according to this company they have, then guess what? No vat is due.

Should that company lie, then it is a simple case of them being pursued for the vat. If you have been taken to court in these circumstances it is such an easy case to defend.

So lets not get carried away with guessing what is happening or what is right or wrong, just stick to the facts which are so very simple.

I will also state again that there is NO import taxes due on photographic goods from Hong Kong.

But why should it bother anyone? You either want to buy from this company or you don't. You make the choice and that should be end of it. If you believe you will be pursued to the ends of the earth and it will destroy your life then for goodness sake don't buy from them, leave the goods to the likes of us who are happy to buy them.

I should also say that if you search this forum you will see that I have already bought an EM1 direct off Olympus and am very happy with the deal and arrangement I had with them. It was only using that EM1 that made me realise I would not use my EM5 as a back up and was going to buy another EM1.

I should also re-iterate for those worried about it, that a warranty is valid throughout the world. Olympus would not refuse a warranty repair.

Best regards


Chris

MarkG
2nd November 2013, 08:36 PM
Ok sticking to the facts. An em1 is not a toy accessory worth $69

This is clearly an attempt to misrepresent the value of the camera.

Stu
2nd November 2013, 10:39 PM
Taken from the HMRC website:

Who is responsible for the information on the declaration?

If you are ordering or sending any goods from abroad, you - as the importer of goods - are legally responsible for the information on the Customs Declaration and for any charges due.

If you're ordering goods remotely, for example over the Internet or by mail order, it is in your own interest to make sure that the sender abroad makes a complete and accurate declaration.

If you're sending goods from abroad to the UK, then the recipient is legally responsible for the information on the Customs Declaration.

If no declaration is made, or the information is inaccurate, the package may be delayed whilst the UKBA makes further enquiries, and in some cases, the package and its contents may be seized.

byegad
3rd November 2013, 08:23 AM
Having studied law for 7 years, let me explain something!

If the seller has paid the vat and according to this company they have, then guess what? No vat is due.

Should that company lie, then it is a simple case of them being pursued for the vat. If you have been taken to court in these circumstances it is such an easy case to defend.

So lets not get carried away with guessing what is happening or what is right or wrong, just stick to the facts which are so very simple.

I will also state again that there is NO import taxes due on photographic goods from Hong Kong.

But why should it bother anyone? You either want to buy from this company or you don't. You make the choice and that should be end of it. If you believe you will be pursued to the ends of the earth and it will destroy your life then for goodness sake don't buy from them, leave the goods to the likes of us who are happy to buy them.

I should also say that if you search this forum you will see that I have already bought an EM1 direct off Olympus and am very happy with the deal and arrangement I had with them. It was only using that EM1 that made me realise I would not use my EM5 as a back up and was going to buy another EM1.

I should also re-iterate for those worried about it, that a warranty is valid throughout the world. Olympus would not refuse a warranty repair.

Best regards


Chris

Thanks for the explanation Chris. I bow to your superior knowledge of the complex world of Customs and Excise. I have had a few bad experiences buying from abroad, with the worst being a spare part for a bicycle made in Hong Kong that not only looked cheap but was, in fact the only place I could source the item. I ended up paying a large sum on that to HMRC via the Post Office. I've also been stung for smaller amounts of tax in one form or another on items from abroad.

Cheers. *chr

Stu
3rd November 2013, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the explanation Chris. I bow to your superior knowledge of the complex world of Customs and Excise. I have had a few bad experiences buying from abroad, with the worst being a spare part for a bicycle made in Hong Kong that not only looked cheap but was, in fact the only place I could source the item. I ended up paying a large sum on that to HMRC via the Post Office. I've also been stung for smaller amounts of tax in one form or another on items from abroad.

Cheers. *chr

So there is no misunderstands you might want to have a look at what the official HMRC website says and who is responsible:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/post/customs-procedures.htm

Also a lot of these imports do not come in with any warranty card. That is what happened to someone I know. For repairs she was told it had to go back to the shop in HK.

byegad
3rd November 2013, 12:03 PM
So there is no misunderstands you might want to have a look at what the official HMRC website says and who is responsible:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/post/customs-procedures.htm

Also a lot of these imports do not come in with any warranty card. That is what happened to someone I know. For repairs she was told it had to go back to the shop in HK.


Thanks Stu. I think! :confused: :)

I'm no wiser now, not that that is a surprise to those that know me!

Chris states that there are no fees to pay, that's good enough for me. I'll have to do a lot of research before I lay out serious money to HK or anywhere outside of the EU for that matter. As I've only just, last month, bought another camera it will be a while so it will be something for the dark winter evenings.