PDA

View Full Version : Wheatear


PeterD
16th September 2008, 09:21 PM
I thought it was about time to post something in this section. I would appreciate comments on this image.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/Wheatear_-_Oenanthe_oenanthe-9142924.jpg

I know its another bird (feathered kind) but I was quite pleased with this one.

Peter

Scapula Memory
16th September 2008, 09:31 PM
That Peter is simply stunning.

Fluffy
16th September 2008, 09:33 PM
Outstanding sharpness and composition. Excellent.

Steve

Ray Shotter
16th September 2008, 09:34 PM
PeterD,

My comments are very brief. Everything about the image is excellent, sharpness of focus of bird and twigs, out of focus background colour and the composition of the photograph. A superb shot !

Ray.

shirley
16th September 2008, 09:34 PM
I thought it was about time to post something in this section. I would appreciate comments on this image.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/Wheatear_-_Oenanthe_oenanthe-9142924.jpg

I know its another bird (feathered kind) but I was quite pleased with this one.

Peter

I should think you are, its fabulous, I love this.
Can you tell us which lens/camera/settings you used?
*chr

PeterD
16th September 2008, 09:37 PM
That Peter is simply stunning.

Thank you John. I am trying to work on composing images in my wildlife shoots. I find it difficult as I only have about 1 hour a day whilst walking my dog and most of my shoots are opportunistic rather than planned.

Peter

Invicta
16th September 2008, 09:41 PM
Lovely photo, the bird's pose and sharpness are A1. The colour scheme is also great.

It would be interesting to see a cropped version with the green foliage removed as this looks out of place against the rest of the twigs.

theMusicMan
16th September 2008, 09:45 PM
Cracking photo Peter, wonderful image.

As this though is in the 'Looking for perfection' area, the only thing I'll suggest is that in my opinion, the image could be much improved with a different crop. If the bird were to the right of the image a little more, it would provide some 'space' for the Wheatear to be looking into.

PeterD
16th September 2008, 09:47 PM
Thank you Steve, Ray and Shirley for your kind comments.

My photo is in my image gallery and the exif info can be found there but it is copied below:

EXIF Information
File name: Wheatear_-_Oenanthe_oenanthe-9142924.jpg File size: 393387 bytes
File date: 2008:09:14 11:59:04 Camera make: OLYMPUS IMAGING CORP.
Camera model: E-3 Date/Time: 2008:09:14 09:16:38
Resolution: 800 x 600 Flash used: No
Focal length: 500.0mm Exposure time: 0.0025 s (1/400)
Aperture: f/8.0 ISO equiv.: 400
Whitebalance: Auto Metering Mode: spot
Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)

Peter

Graham_of_Rainham
16th September 2008, 09:59 PM
This really is a great image that with a little bit of editing in Photoshop would be excellent. I appreciate that as a "Nature" shot you are presenting the subject in its environment. But there is that twig appearing out of its breast that is crying out to me to be cloned away. The other tiny bit of twig that runs parrallel to the birds breast could also be removed. I also prefer it without the green leaves.

Even when viewed at the resolution of this site it looks pin sharp on my screen (even when magnified)

*chr

PeterD
16th September 2008, 10:07 PM
Thank you for your comments Invicta, John and Graham.

The lens used is the Bigma @ 500mm. Shot was hand held as I never use tripods nor monopods (although I own one). At 1/400s exposure it says volumes about the lens and the camera IS.

I have re-cropped the image to take into account Invicta and John's comments.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/Wheatear_-_Oenanthe_oenanthe_-_edit-9142924.jpg

I am afraid I do not yet have the skills necessary to remove bits from an image so I can only present it as-is. I do take your point though Graham.

Peter

JohnGG
16th September 2008, 10:20 PM
A beautiful picture *yes

Cheers,

JohnGG

Graham_of_Rainham
16th September 2008, 10:37 PM
Peter,

I've taken the liberty of editing your image (which I shall remove straight away if you wish)

This was done with simple clone tool in a few minutes. To really do the job this image deserves, it would need time and the technique of layer masks to get it perfect. I hope you approve of the differences.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/Wheatear_-_Oenanthe_oenanthe_-_edit-91429241.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8252)

*chr

PeterD
16th September 2008, 10:45 PM
Graham,

Thank you for the edit. I really must get to grips with photoplus x2 (my image editing software).

I have to say that I was very concerned about posting in this section of the forum but now the ice has been broken I feel more comfortable.

So far I have learnt how to improve the composition by a more careful crop and also I am now determined to master PP - or at least get it working for me.

Thank you all for your comments I appreciate them all.

Peter*chr

theMusicMan
16th September 2008, 10:48 PM
Hi Peter

Hope you don't mind, but I have taken Graham's excellent edit and added some space to the left of the image for the Wheatear to look into.

I shall remove it if required... hope this helps.

John

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/590/wheatear2_peterd.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8253)

PeterD
16th September 2008, 11:00 PM
John,

You guys just amaze me. I shall have to get to grips with my image editor. The more I see of what you can do, the more determined I am to master it.

A particular thank you to you and Graham for your edits. Your support in this is greatly appreciated.

Peter

Zuiko
16th September 2008, 11:17 PM
Well now, what was a pretty much perfect picture to start with is now IMHO absolutely perfect! I cannot think of even the tiniest attention to detail that would improve it. You fully deserve to be chuffed to bits about this one, Peter. Anyone would! What a terrific shot!

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/natur/nature-smiley-011.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/natur/nature-smiley-016.gif

theMusicMan
16th September 2008, 11:23 PM
John,

You guys just amaze me. I shall have to get to grips with my image editor. The more I see of what you can do, the more determined I am to master it.

A particular thank you to you and Graham for your edits. Your support in this is greatly appreciated.

PeterNo probs Peter... but by ek... you did well to capture this one...

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/590/wheater_moon.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8254)

PeterD
17th September 2008, 05:04 AM
No probs Peter... but by ek... you did well to capture this one...

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/590/wheater_moon.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8254)

And there I am thinking the bird is about to spend it's winter in Africa :D.

I have been desperately trying to think of a quip for your edit. Its a bit corny but

One small step for man, one giant flight for Wheatear:p

Perhaps some of our more gifted people can think of something better:D

Peter

ndl0071
17th September 2008, 06:56 AM
Hi Peter

What a cracker, in my opinion this is one of the best bird (feathered kind course) photos that I have seen on this forum made all the more remarkable for hand holding a Bigma!!

The editing has improved the finished product, I am sure this is an aspect of photography that you will soon pick up with some practice and of course with a little help from your friends (I think I've heard that line before somwhere)

Thanks for posting.

Neil

art frames
17th September 2008, 07:44 AM
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/Wheatear_-_Oenanthe_oenanthe-9142924.jpg

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/590/wheatear2_peterd.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8253)

Peter

Peter

I have put the two images together to try to offer my viewpoint. And I am a great fan of photoshop work and spend hours constructing images. But in simplifying and cutting away you sometimes lose the essence of what you had.

This was a really very good picture, showing the bird in habitat and with a lovely OOF background creating wonderful sky colours with variation and mood. I could believe in it. I could feel the thorns and the protection they gave the wheatear.

With the clean-up I lose a number of reality signals, nature isn't as clean and pretty as this and it feels false. I distrust the colours and it begins to feel artificial. Maybe an airbrush job.

All of the changes have been for the best and have added something but maybe (for me anyway) also taken away something. I have the benefit of seeing the start and end point so this may be hindsight.

If you look at the way portraits are over-tweaked and made unrealistic in glossy magazines I am feeling a little bit of that here.

My point is to see this as an alternative to your shot and to weigh up what you are trying to achieve in photographing birds and nature. Both are valid - - but not the same.

Great shot though.


Peter

PeterD
17th September 2008, 08:06 AM
Thank you John, Neil and Peter for your kind comments.

Peter
I am very much in agreement with your thoughts about natural shots and editing. I think, in this case, that the edits of Graham and John (NOT THE LAST ONE OF JOHN'S) maintain the natural setting but remove the thorns that were causing an imperfection. This I think was fair and not over-editing. I think you are right though in saying, had you not seen the start you would have suspected the background was artificially created in an image editor. Perhaps a better approach in the editing would have been to clean up the branches as has been done and remove the green leaves but retain the original crop with the Wheatear moved further to the right. That would have achieved much the same but retained the variation in the background.

Cheers

Peter

theMusicMan
17th September 2008, 08:22 AM
You might think this weird, but I too agree with Peter (AF) here. The reason I extended the image with a [poor] background copy was simply to show the effect of adding some space for the bird to be either looking into or could move into. There's no doubt in IMHO that placing a bird in the right or left 3rd of the frame - depending on which way the bird is facing, provides a much more aesthetically appealing image.

I am not advocating using PS to do this to images in reality, but only used the technique to illustrate what I would aim for in a composition. I agree, my edit is not that good as one can see banding etc, it's only there to show 'space'. In reality I'd try to compose the image with said space.

I will try to find an example...

theMusicMan
17th September 2008, 08:31 AM
Here you go...

These crops are taken from the same image.

The top image has the Blue Tit's eyes centered on the frame, and the bottom image has the Blue Tit's eyes on the right 3rd of the frame.

Compositionally, the bottom image is better in my opinion...

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/586/bluey.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8257)

JohnGG
17th September 2008, 09:16 AM
How about

"Blimey, there's no wheat 'ere!"

Cheers,

JohnGG

Nick Temple-Fry
17th September 2008, 10:39 AM
Peter

May I just say that I join the chorus (getting on for a full Oratorio choir now) praising this shot - it is a classic specimen presentation.

I think I would have cropped/shot this as portrait, giving the upwards push of the branch with the bird on top; but as the discussion has revealed there are numerous options depending on taste.

My only caveat, well I can marvel at the crispness/detail/light etc, but it didn't emotionally 'grab' me, I'm not sure what I've learnt about a wheatear other than it is too small to make a pie.

Great shot.

Nick

petrovich
17th September 2008, 11:25 AM
Peter.

The original was superb......

Regards

PeterD
17th September 2008, 11:57 AM
Nick & Peter,

Thank you for your comments. There are so many ways to treat an image and I like your suggestion Nick, of a portrait shot. With hind-sight that may have been a better way of presenting it as it would fit that format naturally.

With respect to 'grabbing you'. I also have to agree with you in that regard too. I have a natural dislike for posed shots - any subject, animal or human. I have said many times my preference is for action shooting and thats why I am developing my skills in that area. Action provides that extra dimension which I find so pleasing.

Peter

Graham_of_Rainham
17th September 2008, 12:32 PM
I recall a story of years ago about a photographer who had a picture of a kingfisher in a wildlife competition. He spent ages constructing a hide, wadeing out into the freezing water to position branches in just the right place for the bird to perch on, rowing across the water to clear away unsightly stuff from the background, waiting endless hours for the bird to turn up (with fish in beak). Finally it all paid off :)

The perfect shot, kingfisher with fish, sun sparkling on the water, catchlight in the eye, pin sharp, soft background, perfectly exposed, etc., etc., etc...

Everyone gave it great praise and expected it to win ;)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Then the Judge turned up and declared it to be a fake :eek:

"That branch it's sat on is Oak and that don't grow around there, so it couldn't have fallen in the water as we see it" :mad:

I guess these days we expect to see "cleaned up images" and I hear more and more judges saying "The distractions should be removed"

So it really comes down to personal choice and I believe we are so much better for having different view able to be expressed and discussed in such a constructive way. *yes

It has helped to have a great shot to start with as only very small adjustments have been made and nothing false has been added.

*chr

yorky
17th September 2008, 05:54 PM
Its a fine picture of a summer visitor, I would be pleased if I had managed to take that.

PeterD
17th September 2008, 06:26 PM
Its a fine picture of a summer visitor, I would be pleased if I had managed to take that.


Thanks for your kind comment. They are building up a small flock here at Langstone harbour. They started to arrive in numbers 3-4 weeks ago. I guess I shall be saying goodbye by the end of the month *ohwell when they start their marathon journey to Africa via France, Spain and Morroco. The good news is that I shall be able to welcome them back in February/March:D.

Peter

tlove
17th September 2008, 06:38 PM
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/590/wheater_moon.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8254)

:D:D LOL :D:D I told you the Bigma was b****y good!!

Lovely picture Peter - I can't add any more superlatives than have already been added by others - simply beautiful *chr

Perhaps when I get my Bigma back I'll drag my lazy carcass down to Langstone Harbour and have a go myself :D

PeterD
17th September 2008, 06:57 PM
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/590/wheater_moon.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/8254)

:D:D LOL :D:D I told you the Bigma was b****y good!!

Lovely picture Peter - I can't add any more superlatives than have already been added by others - simply beautiful *chr

Perhaps when I get my Bigma back I'll drag my lazy carcass down to Langstone Harbour and have a go myself :D

Thea, do you Langstone well? If you want we could meet up for a shoot but I shall leave it up to you. Alternatively, I can point out good places to go.

Peter

tlove
17th September 2008, 07:05 PM
Thanks Peter

I've never been to Langstone Harbour, so I'll pm you when my lens returns from Sigma (they've got the E-3 as well :(), perhaps we could sort something out - that could be good :).

PeterD
17th September 2008, 07:11 PM
Thanks Peter

I've never been to Langstone Harbour, so I'll pm you when my lens returns from Sigma (they've got the E-3 as well :(), perhaps we could sort something out - that could be good :).

Cheers. Hope they sort things out soon. It was a focusing issue as I recall and they wanted both camera and lens to 'set them up' or 'optimise' them. You should be pleased when they are returned. The Bigma and E3 make an excellent piece of kit.

Peter