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Chevvyf1
20th September 2013, 01:13 PM
I have just enjoyed the MOST wonderful ENLIGHTENING conversation with a Specialist ...

SET TO VIVID mode

UP the CONTRAST as high as you can because its CONTRAST based AF :) duh sooo very simple eh ?

USE S-AF if your panning is up to it, this gives better images


the EM-5 and EM-1 have "Magnify Focus Square" options - Focus Sq being the little green sq in the middle ? increase it :) up to a MAX of x 14 is poss :)



It may work on the EP ?s not sure ...


Much will work on the E-5 too :) eg VIVID mode and upping the contrast ...

... unable to magnify focus sq... :(


THIS information came from Matt at SRS microsystems.co.uk

Here is his Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/popephotos/


and he joined here on Wednesday - maybe he was our 3,000 member ?

I asked Matt if SRS would let him give a "Session" or two - paid for on Birds in Flight with these cameras (EM-5 and EM-5 ... even other Oly - saying I would be happy (ecstatic) to pay a reasonable fee for this ... he said

we would have to email asking for this and get enough OF US PAYING to make it viable for the SRS BOSS man to say YES :D

SO, if you want to know - are willing to travel to SRS and PAY for the Privilege :D send Matt an email ... I have use spaces and not @ so his email cannot be phished and used incorrectly :)


I did say "Mat you have to join the Olympus e-forum and post this there it will help lots of US ... and reflect very well on SRS making for Great Relationship Marketing :D :D :D but he just does not get the time ... two small children and a wife :D ... poor chap we have most of us being there ... :cool:

Perhaps a few with the E -M5 can try this ... and post results here ? *chr

Matt also informed me of Bryce Bradford and his OM-D EM-5 and EM-1 images - ok I shall save you a search

Just look at THIS Bif :) WoW EEE !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7182521799/in/set-72157629928336655

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7670468944/in/set-72157629928336655/lightbox/

Here is his OM-D EM-5 tracking frame

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7666546034/in/set-72157629928336655



Let me know if and how the above AF info works :)

Popephoto
20th September 2013, 01:50 PM
Hi,

Matt from SRS here. Glad I could help, earlier on the phone. The foucusing square can be used on EM-5,EP-5,EPL-5 and EPM-2. The size is adjusted in the touch
screen menu (from 5 to 14x can be selected, bigger the number the smaller the foucus square is) and I have assigned this to a function button for easier use when taking pictures of aviation or wildlife. (I use the EM-5 with the 75-300mm lens for this). I also use this for macro work as it makes focusing much more accurate and quicker. Hope this helps, i'll try and pop on here as much as I can to help. Happy shooting to everyone, and don't let people tell you that it can't be done on an Olympus camera, it CAN!! *yes:D

Ian
20th September 2013, 01:59 PM
That won't work on the E-M1, sorry!

Unless you a MFT lens in single-AF mode.

Ian

Ian
20th September 2013, 02:00 PM
Hi,

Matt from SRS here. Glad I could help, earlier on the phone. The foucusing square can be used on EM-5,EP-5,EPL-5 and EPM-2. The size is adjusted in the touch
screen menu (from 5 to 14x can be selected, bigger the number the smaller the foucus square is) and I have assigned this to a function button for easier use when taking pictures of aviation or wildlife. (I use the EM-5 with the 75-300mm lens for this). I also use this for macro work as it makes focusing much more accurate and quicker. Hope this helps, i'll try and pop on here as much as I can to help. Happy shooting to everyone, and don't let people tell you that it can't be done on an Olympus camera, it CAN!! *yes:D

Hi Matt - you are very welcome and we have dedicated dealer board here on the forum called Dealers Den, too.

Ian

StephenL
20th September 2013, 02:21 PM
Welcome, Matt. I'm sure we've met in the shop!

Chevvyf1
20th September 2013, 03:11 PM
That won't work on the E-M1, sorry!

Unless you a MFT lens in single-AF mode.

Ian

Yes Ian,

sorry you may have missed this ... and Matt uses 75-300 for Bif and Airplanes mainly he said :)

USE S-AF if your panning is up to it, this gives better images

the EM-5 and EM-1 have "Magnify Focus Square" options - Focus Sq being the little green sq in the middle ? increase it upt to a MAX of x 14 is poss

Chevvyf1
20th September 2013, 03:13 PM
Hi,

Matt from SRS here. Glad I could help, earlier on the phone. The focusing square can be used on EM-5,EP-5,EPL-5 and EPM-2. The size is adjusted in the touch
screen menu (from 5 to 14x can be selected, bigger the number the smaller the foucus square is) and I have assigned this to a function button for easier use when taking pictures of aviation or wildlife. (I use the EM-5 with the 75-300mm lens for this). I also use this for macro work as it makes focusing much more accurate and quicker. Hope this helps, i'll try and pop on here as much as I can to help. Happy shooting to everyone, and don't let people tell you that it can't be done on an Olympus camera, it CAN!! *yes:D


Hi Matt, look forward to seeing you about :)

dogsbody
20th September 2013, 06:08 PM
Hi,

Matt from SRS here. Glad I could help, earlier on the phone. The foucusing square can be used on EM-5,EP-5,EPL-5 and EPM-2. The size is adjusted in the touch
screen menu (from 5 to 14x can be selected, bigger the number the smaller the foucus square is) and I have assigned this to a function button for easier use when taking pictures of aviation or wildlife. (I use the EM-5 with the 75-300mm lens for this). I also use this for macro work as it makes focusing much more accurate and quicker. Hope this helps, i'll try and pop on here as much as I can to help. Happy shooting to everyone, and don't let people tell you that it can't be done on an Olympus camera, it CAN!! *yes:D

Hi Matt, looking forward to putting your gems of info to use when I get my EM-1 from you

Jonathan (ex Pentaxian)

David Morison
20th September 2013, 11:22 PM
I'm glad Matt has joined the Forum - welcome. I purchased my E-M5 from SRS and have pre-ordered my E-M1 from them also plus many other 4/3 and m4/3 items - my favourite retailer.

I don't understand how this method works though. Surely the Vivid setting etc. only works after the file is created and does not take part in the actual taking of the shot, hence they don't apply to a RAW file. I'd love to try it but can somebody explain the science behind it?

David

Zuiko
21st September 2013, 12:08 AM
I'm glad Matt has joined the Forum - welcome. I purchased my E-M5 from SRS and have pre-ordered my E-M1 from them also plus many other 4/3 and m4/3 items - my favourite retailer.

I don't understand how this method works though. Surely the Vivid setting etc. only works after the file is created and does not take part in the actual taking of the shot, hence they don't apply to a RAW file. I'd love to try it but can somebody explain the science behind it?

David

I've heard this before and although I haven't tried it myself others have found that it does work. I believe this is because the camera uses the JPEG settings in live view and image review even if you are shooting raw only. I have just checked this on my E-M5, set to raw only, and this is indeed the case, so although the camera is recording only the raw to the memory card it is in fact working in JPEG mode for the shooting parameters. As Ian has already said, though, setting Vivid and boosting the contrast will only influence the focusing on the E-M1 when using S-AF with an MFT lens. It actually has greater potential when using the E-M5 or any other MFT camera.

Out of interest, I also discovered that if you use an art filter with the camera set to raw only it automatically records a LN JPEG as well as the raw.

I'm also strongly suspicious that when shooting JPEG with the noise filter turned off there is still significant noise filtering being employed at high ISO.

Phill D
21st September 2013, 05:19 AM
Welcome to the forum Matt, I think I spoke to you over the phone last time I called SRS. I'm in the E-M1 pre-order club from SRS too. Their reputation on here and the intro offer was just too good to miss. Oh just looked at your Flickr site Matt, you've got some very nice shots on there. I hope you get time to post some images on here too.

pvasc
21st September 2013, 01:00 PM
I have just enjoyed the MOST wonderful ENLIGHTENING conversation with a Specialist ...

SET TO VIVID mode

UP the CONTRAST as high as you can because its CONTRAST based AF :) duh sooo very simple eh ?

USE S-AF if your panning is up to it, this gives better images


the EM-5 and EM-1 have "Magnify Focus Square" options - Focus Sq being the little green sq in the middle ? increase it :) up to a MAX of x 14 is poss :)



It may work on the EP ?s not sure ...


Much will work on the E-5 too :) eg VIVID mode and upping the contrast ...

... unable to magnify focus sq... :(


THIS information came from Matt at SRS microsystems.co.uk

Here is his Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/popephotos/


and he joined here on Wednesday - maybe he was our 3,000 member ?

I asked Matt if SRS would let him give a "Session" or two - paid for on Birds in Flight with these cameras (EM-5 and EM-5 ... even other Oly - saying I would be happy (ecstatic) to pay a reasonable fee for this ... he said

we would have to email asking for this and get enough OF US PAYING to make it viable for the SRS BOSS man to say YES :D

SO, if you want to know - are willing to travel to SRS and PAY for the Privilege :D send Matt an email ... I have use spaces and not @ so his email cannot be phished and used incorrectly :)


I did say "Mat you have to join the Olympus e-forum and post this there it will help lots of US ... and reflect very well on SRS making for Great Relationship Marketing :D :D :D but he just does not get the time ... two small children and a wife :D ... poor chap we have most of us being there ... :cool:

Perhaps a few with the E -M5 can try this ... and post results here ? *chr

Matt also informed me of Bryce Bradford and his OM-D EM-5 and EM-1 images - ok I shall save you a search

Just look at THIS Bif :) WoW EEE !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7182521799/in/set-72157629928336655

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7670468944/in/set-72157629928336655/lightbox/

Here is his OM-D EM-5 tracking frame

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7666546034/in/set-72157629928336655



Let me know if and how the above AF info works :)

Having had a look at Myset 1, the setup done for flying things when I bought the camera, I see that RGB is at +2 also.

Chevvyf1
21st September 2013, 01:37 PM
Having had a look at Myset 1, the setup done for flying things when I bought the camera, I see that RGB is at +2 also.


Val, any chance of you capturing a flying thing image ? for here ? *chr

pvasc
21st September 2013, 04:38 PM
Val, any chance of you capturing a flying thing image ? for here ? *chr

Okay. So here is Matt's setup being used by a BIF novice with rusty panning skills. I was in Manual mode because I needed / wanted the aperture stopped down, (F8). All shot in RAW, all been through LR
Taken at Borrow Pit Lake, by the Snowdome in Tamworth.

150mm ISO 400 F8 1/1250. Not bad, exposure about right on.

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1407/P9213837.jpg

Then it was about to happen, I forgot to / didn't think to adjust the exposure so these are about 1 stop underexposed, corrected in LR, that's why there is noise.

Some tweak I did, (maybe vivid pic mode), made a difference, a couple of days ago it would have focused on the trees. Or maybe we are at infinity anyway.

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1407/P9213836.jpg

This guy is across the lake pretty much.

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1407/P9213839.jpg

What did I do different/new. I used RAW so I could recover my mistakes. The 14x little green square is just that LITTLE, so I found if you turn on the teleconverter it becomes a 7x medium green square. The DTC only works in JPEG so I still got the whole image, but it was easier to put the bird in the box. I could have magnified the 14x, but that make it impossible to see anything, unless you are on a tripod. ANd I could have just used the 7x square but that might have been to big of a focus area, to much room for error.

Chevvyf1
21st September 2013, 04:46 PM
Cheers Val - did you enjoy it ? which lens did you use ?

pvasc
21st September 2013, 05:22 PM
Cheers Val - did you enjoy it ? which lens did you use ?

It was alright, not very patient and not many birds flying, wrong time of day I think. This was the m4/3 40-150mm plastic fantastic. I'll have another go tomorrow, probably in the morning.

pvasc
22nd September 2013, 07:17 PM
Out again this morning. You see it can focus against clouds too, improved with the settings in this thread.

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1407/P9223879.jpg

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1407/P9223880.jpg

And one from this afternoon. I know Missed the shot, still can't pan very good, but part of the wing is more in focus than the rest. ISO 400 1/160 F16 40-150 @ 150. This was typical of this afternoon, had a real hard time, camera did okay though.

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/1407/P9223968.jpg

brian1208
22nd September 2013, 08:15 PM
And one from this afternoon. I know Missed the shot, still can't pan very good, but part of the wing is more in focus than the rest. ISO 400 1/160 F16 40-150 @ 150. This was typical of this afternoon, had a real hard time, camera did okay though.



Using f16 may have contributed to your problems, I will rarely go to f8 for birds in flight as the m4/3rds lenses don't need it (indeed I have read that to do so can result in diffraction softening)

A couple of examples using this technique with my EM-5

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/oldcanon/EM-5%20flight%20shot%20sharpness/sharpnessinflight5.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/oldcanon/EM-5%20flight%20shot%20sharpness/sharpnessinflight1.jpg

pvasc
22nd September 2013, 08:52 PM
Using f16 may have contributed to your problems, I will rarely go to f8 for birds in flight as the m4/3rds lenses don't need it (indeed I have read that to do so can result in diffraction softening)

A couple of examples using this technique with my EM-5

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/oldcanon/EM-5%20flight%20shot%20sharpness/sharpnessinflight5.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m531/oldcanon/EM-5%20flight%20shot%20sharpness/sharpnessinflight1.jpg

Nice shots, I'll get there someday. I was in shutter priority at 1/160, and I thought I saw F8, because I know that's about as high as you want to go. Panning, or trying to anyway, from a light area, to this pretty dark area. So I was surprised when I saw the exposure data. I know I had it all wrong then. I was working in manual mode yesterday so I could get F8, and was around 1/1250. Need to stop down the 40-150, at 150, other wise I have noticed purple fringing. What lens did you use on these 2?

brian1208
22nd September 2013, 09:01 PM
These were shot using the 75-300 mk 1

Chevvyf1
8th October 2013, 03:33 PM
Brian, whats the diff on the Mk1 to mkII 75-300 ?

and I just seen this on Bryce Bradfords Flickr about Bif - It may help ? *chr

15 months ago

Nice, thanks, looks good! When should you turn off the IS in OM-D? What are the cases, OM-D has difficulties with tracking/moving objects, in your opinion? Thanks a lot in advance :).

Bryce Bradford 15 months ago | reply

I would turn off IS1 for any shots that involve panning for any amount of time, but I'd also turn it off for shutter speeds above 1/800 with the 75-300mm lens (1/125 with the kit lenses). The only time I've had issues tracking with the OM-D is when my subject disappears behind dense foliage or when I accidentally jerk the camera - making my focus point go way off-subject. At supertelephoto focal lengths this is a big deal and it's extremely easy to mess up, so you've always gotta be careful.
Another instance where the camera doesn't like to keep such accurate C-AF is when you are zooming while pressing the button - these lenses aren't built like cinema lenses, so the focus changes with every millimeter that you zoom. This can be tough for the camera to overcome, so I'd suggest staying at a single focal length whenever you are using C-AF. Naturally, if you're fast enough to let go of the button, zoom, and then re-focus this will work just fine... But if you want to talk about tricky technique, thats it!

brian1208
8th October 2013, 03:41 PM
Brian, whats the diff on the Mk1 to mkII 75-300 ?

Apart from the fact that mk2 is cheaper it looks as if its primarily a cosmetic change but some are reporting better focusing and sharpness at distance with the mk2

Ian
8th October 2013, 03:44 PM
The Mark 2 m.Zuiko 75-300 has updated lens coatings and cosmetic changes to the externals but is internally and optically the same as the Mark 1.

Ian

Chevvyf1
9th October 2013, 07:57 AM
Brian, take a look at these utubes vids on the ONE

first sent to me from Val

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnsSFrYeaSc&feature=youtu.be


BIG DOG focus Tips

BigDogsTopTips : Olympus E-M1 - Focus Peaking Explored - YouTube


OM-D E-M1 Auto Focus Test - YouTube

Yank Kie Moon is awesome too :)

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Fourthird lens - YouTube

there is so much info on U Tube :) feast yourself :)

This is an utterly most awesome camera :)

brian1208
9th October 2013, 08:08 AM
Thanks Chevvy, I've been haunting the YouTube vids on the EM-1 before I decided to go for the ONE - it is a bit good innit :D

Chevvyf1
9th October 2013, 08:14 AM
Thanks Chevvy, I've been haunting the YouTube vids on the EM-1 before I decided to go for the ONE - it is a bit good innit :D

Well, Brian you could say that - but what an understatement ! :eek:

off to our local park with half a dozen 3 yrs and under ... and my Puppy ... maybe I shall get a moment or two with the ONE :cool:

StephenL
9th October 2013, 08:29 AM
Thanks for the pointer to the focus peaking video - most useful. May be a stupid question, but does focus peaking still show when you enable depth-of-field preview?

Ian
9th October 2013, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the pointer to the focus peaking video - most useful. May be a stupid question, but does focus peaking still show when you enable depth-of-field preview?

I can only go by the E-P5 I have here as I don't currently have an E-M1 but yes peaking works with DOF preview activated.

Ian

brian1208
11th October 2013, 06:02 AM
I found an interesting quote regarding continuous focus tracking using the new canon composite sensor in the 70D

Sadly Dual Pixel AF is only really used for single image AF or movie shooting (see the movie page to see how it does). If you need continuous autofocus with tracking, you have to use the 70D's conventional AF system. We looked at how well it could track a subject walking towards the camera and left-to-right across the frame.

Sounds a bit like my experiences so far with the EM-5 and EM-1

I think I will stick with my use of SAF +MF and "blipping" the shutter button as I manually track the bird through the sky until it reaches my "critical moment", followed by a quick burst at 4fps or 6fps respectively to capture the action, as here:

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/kite-strike-0_1381470799.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/kite-strike_1381470805.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/kite-strike-1_1381471223.jpg

note - these are three different "attacks" not a continuous sequence )

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 09:56 AM
Brian, these are excellent - that focus on the "eye" is awesome !


Here are some I took with the ONE this week :D I managed some time off at Hayling Island yesterday (from "whats the time Mr. Wolf" walking the children two miles along the -almost empty Beach) - it was bitterly cold winds, but bright blue sky day and I was temped by Nick feeding picnic leftovers and Hola Hoops to Seagulls !

I forgot some of Matts recommended settings ... duh! must do MySetup1 for them today :)


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/10196237644/


BTW I was started to see "the screen move" mega Duh! I did not realise the ONE is Touch Screen ... not got to that bit of the manual yet :eek:

andym
11th October 2013, 10:09 AM
I found an interesting quote regarding continuous focus tracking using the new canon composite sensor in the 70D



Sounds a bit like my experiences so far with the EM-5 and EM-1

I think I will stick with my use of SAF +MF and "blipping" the shutter button as I manually track the bird through the sky until it reaches my "critical moment", followed by a quick burst at 4fps or 6fps respectively to capture the action, as here:

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/kite-strike-0_1381470799.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/kite-strike_1381470805.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/kite-strike-1_1381471223.jpg

note - these are three different "attacks" not a continuous sequence )


What have they done to these pictures, yes they are sharp but they look horrible especially the last one:eek::eek:
Look like cut outs from other pictures.

Ian
11th October 2013, 10:49 AM
I think they are over-sharpened - there are some halos around the high-contrast edges.

Ian

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 11:47 AM
I do agree :) also I had the camera set to Vivid Art Filter and whazzed the Contrast up when taking these ...

I over sharpened in trying to "see" more detail ! pixel peking ! to see "what this camera/lens combo had captured in my rather feeble attempts at Bif with it :D and much worse a SIN, I took them in small jpeg format ! not RAW



Andy, I was in jpeg :) but playing so small jpeg files :)

Ian
11th October 2013, 11:57 AM
I do agree :) also I had the camera set to Vivid Art Filter and whazzed the Contrast up when taking these ...

I over sharpened in trying to "see" more detail ! pixel peking ! to see "what this camera/lens combo had captured in my rather feeble attempts at Bif with it :D and much worse a SIN, I took them in small jpeg format ! not RAW


the originals are lacking the halos/fuzzy edges :)

Are Andy and I referring to pictures you took? I thought Brian took them...

Ian

brian1208
11th October 2013, 12:36 PM
I think they are over-sharpened - there are some halos around the high-contrast edges.

Ian


quite probably Andy & Ian, but the timing and focus are good, which is what I put them up for :D

(These are processed for web, not the original images, which I can assure you are not over-sharpened *chr )

I should maybe explain what may seem a flippant comment - I am not putting these images up as example of my standard of photography, nor as examples of good BIF photography, purely as a bit of quick info on how the focus system on the EM-1 works for me with my range of lenses.

My primary use of my photographs is for prints, mainly for competition and sale, not for perusal on the web, so I take very little time to produce the best quality images for this use

In this case I have been rattling through over 600 shots / 1 hour session (did another this morning) and all that I am interested in examining and showing here is, is the focus system working in the mode I have it set - that's all.
So, whilst I value your input on these shots please don't feel that I am ignoring your thoughts on sharpening etc, I hear them - but they are not relevant to me in the context of what I am trying to do here

(Chevvy and Dave can tell you about the quality of my commercial work, having kindly visited one of my exhibitions this year :) )

Wee man
11th October 2013, 12:50 PM
Sorry to break in but welcome Matt I am number xxxa on the OMD EM1 preorder list, looking forward to your e-mail re above and also to some of your shots on here.

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 01:21 PM
Are Andy and I referring to pictures you took? I thought Brian took them...

Ian

Not sure ! but I do know how much I sharpened mine for "pixel Peking" viewers to see the detail captured by the camera ONE + lens 75-300 :D

May be a crossed wing or two :)

brian1208
11th October 2013, 01:40 PM
A quick statistical update on a walk and talk shoot whilst chatting with my wife and a couple of friends along Mudeford Quay after a greasy bacon breakfast this morning (luvverly *yes )

approx 150 shots of birds (grabbed on the basis that if I could se it I would bang off a shot, no preparation or anything)

Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 on EM-1

approx 100 in focus / sharp (others either total miss or slightly blurry oof)

manual exposure control, single point centre focus (small), ISO 400, shutter 1/1000th - 1/1250th sec, aperture f5.6 - f8

This agrees with the sort of figures I was seeing on day 2 and for me, now represents a worst case figure for bright / cloudy high contrast shooting with the sun in front / LH / RH (ie: worst conditions for acquiring focus with BIF in my experience)

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 01:58 PM
A quick statistical update on a walk and talk shoot whilst chatting with my wife and a couple of friends along Mudeford Quay after a greasy bacon breakfast this morning (luvverly *yes )

approx 150 shots of birds (grabbed on the basis that if I could se it I would bang off a shot, no preparation or anything)

Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 on EM-1

approx 100 in focus / sharp (others either total miss or slightly blurry oof)

manual exposure control, single point centre focus (small), ISO 400, shutter 1/1000th - 1/1250th sec, aperture f5.6 - f8

This agrees with the sort of figures I was seeing on day 2 and for me, now represents a worst case figure for bright / cloudy high contrast shooting with the sun in front / LH / RH (ie: worst conditions for acquiring focus with BIF in my experience)


Brian, I chanced ISO 400 too - although we had great blue skies at Hayling, some of the time - it was mostly cloudy and bright/occasionally cloudy dull :( my shutter started at 2000 then down to 1/800 and down to 1/600 then mysteriously, went down to 1/250 (I think I twiddled a button and let this down) to 1/100 too slow :(

I seem to have used "Pattern" metering :eek: I was playing about rather a lot with settings ... and enlarging the "Green focus rectangle" :D

Did you use Vivid Art Filter setting ? and Contrast up high ? to aid capture ? as Matt Hope suggested to me (and I posted in my first Bif ONE thread ) ?

brian1208
11th October 2013, 02:32 PM
I'm working with centre weighted exposure metering most of the time (except when spot is called for) both with the EM-5 and E-1. In this case it was manual exposure so not relevant.

I haven't played with the Art Filters yet nor boosted the contrast so these results are a "base-case" for me

I've had a quick look at you BIFs, they look good. I will comment more on that thread in a while (busy getting everything sorted for an early start to Thruxton tomorrow at the mo)

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 02:58 PM
I'm working with centre weighted exposure metering most of the time (except when spot is called for) both with the EM-5 and E-1. In this case it was manual exposure so not relevant.

I haven't played with the Art Filters yet nor boosted the contrast so these results are a "base-case" for me

I've had a quick look at you BIFs, they look good. I will comment more on that thread in a while (busy getting everything sorted for an early start to Thruxton tomorrow at the mo)

Arghhh rain forecast so pac a mac :) :eek:

brian1208
11th October 2013, 03:05 PM
Arghhh rain forecast so pac a mac

I've washed me "Thermals", dug out my water-proof trousers, sealskin water-proof gloves and "beanie hat", got the Soup Thermos ready.

Its a good chance to test the waterproof qualities of the EM-1 + 12-50 kit lens + panny 35-100. (I've stuck my EM-5 body in my bag just in case ;) )

andym
11th October 2013, 03:23 PM
I must admit I'm totally perplexed about this idea of upping the contrast and using an vivid colour to help with AF. These are Jpeg settings and as we all know are applied when the camera does the conversion to Jpeg.If you shoot RAW these settings do not apply so how can they help with AF:eek::eek:

Either I'm being misled or you are.;););)

DavyG
11th October 2013, 03:31 PM
I seem to have used "Pattern" metering :eek: I was playing about rather a lot with settings ... and enlarging the "Green focus rectangle" :D


Hi Chevvy,

I've been reading this thread and I'm puzzled by what you mean by enlarging the Green Focus rectangle.

If I press the fn1 button then the info button I get the option of having a small focus rectangle, a standard focus rectangle, a block of nine focus rectangles or all of the focus triangles, is this what you mean?

If not, could you tell me how to enlarge the green focus rectangle on my E-M1?

Thanks,

Dave

brian1208
11th October 2013, 03:37 PM
this is more a test of shutter lag than focus speed. I had pre-focused on the Sparrow and fired off a couple of frames and suddenly thought, its going to take off, so pressed the shutter - single shot, centre point focus small box

This is the crop from the frame (around 40%)

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/sparrow-take-off_1381505682.jpg

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 03:37 PM
I've washed me "Thermals", dug out my water-proof trousers, sealskin water-proof gloves and "beanie hat", got the Soup Thermos ready.

Its a good chance to test the waterproof qualities of the EM-1 + 12-50 kit lens + panny 35-100. (I've stuck my EM-5 body in my bag just in case ;) )

Brian, I had thermals on yesterday on Hayling Beach :eek: it was flippin freezin in the wind - and with two very thick Musto Fleeces on top :) ... wrapped for anything :) ... I must say rain was not part of the bargain ... :rolleyes: Nick bought me a Mckellen ? spelling Rain Cape - SUPERB thing for me + kit + kitbag :) and I do have a clear waterproof 'thingie' for the camera :)

I have to ask, how do you compare the 75-300 to this panny 35-100 ?

I am wondering if I should have KEPT :eek: my 50-200 SWD lens :cool: although, it would have been HUGE on the ONE !

DavyG
11th October 2013, 03:41 PM
Duplicate post.

brian1208
11th October 2013, 03:44 PM
Chevvy, for me 35-100 is faster focusing, sharper, wider aperture so better in poor light and all together better IQ, except its 200mm shorter than the 75-300

I shall probably get either the 40-150 f2.8 or the panny 150 prime f2.8 when they come out and would love to see either an 80-200 f4 or better yet a 300 f4 (I think these lengths in f2.8 would be just too heavy and expensive)

As an aside and for what its worth, I think that the .jpg files 75-300 at 200mm are sharper and cleaner than the .jpgs from the 35-200 + 2X digital extender at 200mm

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevvyf1
I seem to have used "Pattern" metering I was playing about rather a lot with settings ... and enlarging the "Green focus rectangle"
Hi Chevvy,

I've been reading this thread and I'm puzzled by what you mean by enlarging the Green Focus rectangle.

If I press the fn1 button then the info button I get the option of having a small focus rectangle, a standard focus rectangle, a block of nine focus rectangles or all of the focus triangles, is this what you mean?

If not, could you tell me how to enlarge the green focus rectangle on my E-M1?

Thanks,

Dave


Hi Dave, p.54 manual :D

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 03:49 PM
Chevvy, for me 35-100 is faster focusing, sharper, wider aperture so better in poor light and all together better IQ, except its 200mm shorter than the 75-300

I shall probably get either the 40-150 f2.8 or the panny 150 prime f2.8 when they come out and would love to see either an 80-200 f4 or better yet a 300 f4 (I think these lengths in f2.8 would be just too heavy and expensive)

As an aside and for what its worth, I think that the .jpg files 75-300 at 200mm are sharper and cleaner than the .jpgs from the 35-200 + 2X digital extender at 200mm


NY friends said " ... there is a strong belief aka 'rumour' ... a 300 m.34 is on the schedule :eek: (price pro rata to the 12-40 Pro lens due in November :D) + some $ :) so maybe $2,500/$2,900 :cool:


Interesting ~VERY Interesting ~ what you say about jpegs from 75-300 *chr

DavyG
11th October 2013, 03:50 PM
Hi Dave, p.54 manual :D

Thanks Chevvy,

I didn't realise you were talking about zoom frame AF, thanks for clarifying this.

Dave

Chevvyf1
11th October 2013, 08:02 PM
Thanks Chevvy,

I didn't realise you were talking about zoom frame AF, thanks for clarifying this.

Dave

I hope you dont think me rude quoting p. No. but save writing the manual ! I have not yet learned "off heart" function names :( ... its all stuff from my first post re my telecon with Matt @ SRS :)

BIG learning curve for me with this kit :) :D

PeterBirder
11th October 2013, 09:04 PM
I must admit I'm totally perplexed about this idea of upping the contrast and using an vivid colour to help with AF. These are Jpeg settings and as we all know are applied when the camera does the conversion to Jpeg.If you shoot RAW these settings do not apply so how can they help with AF:eek::eek:

Either I'm being misled or you are.;););)

There is a rationale for this which seems quite plausible to me.

The raw data from the sensor is not viewable as a "picture" as it needs to be demosaiced which includes interpreting the effect of the Bayer filter and applying a Colour space etc. etc. In order to provide the "Live view" and EVF data the camera has to actually do this and produce a format which can be displayed by these raster displays ie. jpg. I believe it also uses data in this form for the Contrast Detection AF. Since any settings such as contrast, colour mode (Vivid etc) set on the camera are seen in the "Live view" then presumably they also affect the data used by the CDAF.

The term "shooting raw" is actually a bit of a misnomer. What we actually do is save the "raw" data files to the memory card rather than the processed jpg files. An ORF "raw file" actually contains, as well as the unprocessed data from the sensor a whole bunch of EXIF files which are much more detailed than the simple EXIF you see in a basic EXIF viewer and which are needed for a "raw converter" to do its job.Interestingly it also includes a jpg thumbnail. The advantages of doing your own "processing from raw" derive mainly from the greater bit depth of the sensor information and the ability to modify the the parameters in the detailed EXIF files regarding camera settings etc.

Well that's my explanation anyway.:)

Regards.*chr

DavyG
11th October 2013, 09:47 PM
I hope you dont think me rude quoting p. No. but save writing the manual ! I have not yet learned "off heart" function names :( ... its all stuff from my first post re my telecon with Matt @ SRS :)

BIG learning curve for me with this kit :) :D

Not at all Chevvy, I'm honestly grateful for the clarification.

Like you, the E-M1 is a huge learning curve for me, I've jumped from an E510 to this one.

I've read the manual from front to back however, I'm well aware that there will be things hidden away that I'll never spot, others will though. ;)

Thanks again,

Dave

raichea
11th October 2013, 10:19 PM
There is a rationale for this which seems quite plausible to me.

The raw data from the sensor is not viewable as a "picture" as it needs to be demosaiced which includes interpreting the effect of the Bayer filter and applying a Colour space etc. etc. In order to provide the "Live view" and EVF data the camera has to actually do this and produce a format which can be displayed by these raster displays ie. jpg. I believe it also uses data in this form for the Contrast Detection AF.

I think it unlikely the user settings will make any difference. All the camera has is the data from the sensor. The camera's firmware will do whatever processing Olympus think necessary in order to optimise the focus accuracy. This is almost certainly going to include some kind of contrast enhancement... but responding to user input just doesn't seem the right way to do it. It would be interesting to hear from the developers, though!

The advantages of doing your own "processing from raw" derive mainly from the greater bit depth of the sensor information and the ability to modify the the parameters in the detailed EXIF files regarding camera settings etc.

Well that's my explanation anyway.:)

Regards.*chr
Bit depth is certainly one advantage... the other main one is that adjustments made by the camera (WB, sharpening, etc.) are not "baked in" to the images.

Steve.

andym
11th October 2013, 10:45 PM
There is a rationale for this which seems quite plausible to me.

The raw data from the sensor is not viewable as a "picture" as it needs to be demosaiced which includes interpreting the effect of the Bayer filter and applying a Colour space etc. etc. In order to provide the "Live view" and EVF data the camera has to actually do this and produce a format which can be displayed by these raster displays ie. jpg. I believe it also uses data in this form for the Contrast Detection AF. Since any settings such as contrast, colour mode (Vivid etc) set on the camera are seen in the "Live view" then presumably they also affect the data used by the CDAF.

The term "shooting raw" is actually a bit of a misnomer. What we actually do is save the "raw" data files to the memory card rather than the processed jpg files. An ORF "raw file" actually contains, as well as the unprocessed data from the sensor a whole bunch of EXIF files which are much more detailed than the simple EXIF you see in a basic EXIF viewer and which are needed for a "raw converter" to do its job.Interestingly it also includes a jpg thumbnail. The advantages of doing your own "processing from raw" derive mainly from the greater bit depth of the sensor information and the ability to modify the the parameters in the detailed EXIF files regarding camera settings etc.

Well that's my explanation anyway.:)

Regards.*chr

Thanks for this Peter.

All I feel is the first thing that we want a camera to do is to focus on what we want it to.What you see in an EVIL is probably just a representation of what you expect with a delay and processed to how you want it to be(or how the camara show it).

The only way to get it to focus on what you want is manual but we do not always have time for this.

The first action of a camera must be to focus before all processing of an image, if not we are at the mercy of the JPEG conversion or storage of the data of the camera.

I still do not think anything you do to contrast/colour can make any difference to focus speed.

But I might be wrong.:o:o:o

PS answered after to much of the sauce*zzz*zzz

Zuiko
11th October 2013, 11:36 PM
Thanks for this Peter.

All I feel is the first thing that we want a camera to do is to focus on what we want it to.What you see in an EVIL is probably just a representation of what you expect with a delay and processed to how you want it to be(or how the camara show it).

The only way to get it to focus on what you want is manual but we do not always have time for this.

The first action of a camera must be to focus before all processing of an image, if not we are at the mercy of the JPEG conversion or storage of the data of the camera.

I still do not think anything you do to contrast/colour can make any difference to focus speed.

But I might be wrong.:o:o:o

PS answered after to much of the sauce*zzz*zzz

Don't forget the processor is working all the time to transmit live view images to the EVF/LCD. Any adjustments you make are visible even if you are recording raw only. We know that those changes to colour and contrast won't be applied to the raw file (although they are imbedded in the data for application in Viewer 3 if required) but still they are streamed to us in real time live view, before we even focus the camera. You can see the effects on the live view image (as opposed to the recorded image) by setting the camera to raw only and adjusting colour and contrast. Remember, MFT lenses focus by contrast detection off the sensor, this is how and why these adjustments are able to influence focus and also why the Key Line Art Filter can be used for quasi focus peaking even with raw only selected (art filters are not applied to raw files but are still seen in live view).

Chevvyf1
12th October 2013, 09:30 AM
Not at all Chevvy, I'm honestly grateful for the clarification.

Like you, the E-M1 is a huge learning curve for me, I've jumped from an E510 to this one.

I've read the manual from front to back however, I'm well aware that there will be things hidden away that I'll never spot, others will though. ;)

Thanks again,

Dave


Dave, Lucky, we all have "each other" to learn from - as like food choices, we select different "bits" ... :D and LUCKY we have this 4M as our "restaurant" to feast in :) *chr

PeterBirder
12th October 2013, 10:26 AM
I think it unlikely the user settings will make any difference. All the camera has is the data from the sensor. The camera's firmware will do whatever processing Olympus think necessary in order to optimise the focus accuracy. This is almost certainly going to include some kind of contrast enhancement... but responding to user input just doesn't seem the right way to do it. It would be interesting to hear from the developers, though!


Bit depth is certainly one advantage... the other main one is that adjustments made by the camera (WB, sharpening, etc.) are not "baked in" to the images.

Steve.

Thanks Steve.
I think in the interest of brevity I over simplified some of my statements.

The raw data from the sensor cannot, I believe be used as it stands to determine contrast. The effect of the Bayer filter is to make each individual photosite (pixel) see only red or green or blue. In order to produce a pixel with meaningful data the processor has to interpolate it's data with that from adjacent pixels. Only then is the data in a form where it can be used to form an image file which can be analysed to measure contrast and to display in real time on the screen or EVF. I clumsily said this was a jpg. What I should have said is " an uncompressed file in a format similar to jpg which can be used by a raster display". It is possible that this file is also at a lower resolution than that used to actually take and record a picture. Remember also that when you actually fire the shutter this process stops and the screen/EVF actually go blank momentarily while the camera processes and records (initially to a buffer) the image data and the files containing all the camera settings (META data/ EXIF).

Regarding the use of raw files what I meant was what you say, I just used different words.:)

Regards.*chr

Chevvyf1
12th October 2013, 10:44 AM
Thanks Steve.
I think in the interest of brevity I over simplified some of my statements.

The raw data from the sensor cannot, I believe be used as it stands to determine contrast. The effect of the Bayer filter is to make each individual photosite (pixel) see only red or green or blue. In order to produce a pixel with meaningful data the processor has to interpolate it's data with that from adjacent pixels. Only then is the data in a form where it can be used to form an image file which can be analysed to measure contrast and to display in real time on the screen or EVF. I clumsily said this was a jpg. What I should have said is " an uncompressed file in a format similar to jpg which can be used by a raster display". It is possible that this file is also at a lower resolution than that used to actually take and record a picture. Remember also that when you actually fire the shutter this process stops and the screen/EVF actually go blank momentarily while the camera processes and records (initially to a buffer) the image data and the files containing all the camera settings (META data/ EXIF).

Regarding the use of raw files what I meant was what you say, I just used different words.:)

Regards.*chr


Peter, when the man from Bugatti told me "push it into Sport mode and kickdown twice and it will engage both turbo and fly ... " I did as he said and it it flew :) like an angel ... this was the race weight 110 in polished Ali, engine test bed - I can scan 35 m slides for you if you like :D

Matt Hope told me some settings to try, which he and Bryce Bradfield used and it enhanced their images captured of aircraft and Birds in Flight ! I hold both these chaps in the same "group" as yourself and the man from Bug - you all know a lot more than I now KNOW - or ever want too KNOW, about the technical design and workings of ??? !

BUT it works :) :D

pdk42
12th October 2013, 01:34 PM
I guess we'll only know the answer to whether user contrast/colour settings can improve autofocus by talking to someone who understands the camera's hardware and software in some detail. At a simplistic level it would seem to me that some sort of high level processing chain like the following must be happening (many times a second):

- Read data from sensor
- Run de-mosaic
- Apply tone curves and other image processing (e.g. Sharpening)
- Render image on EVF (incl adding text overlays and doing display only changes such as display colour temperature)

JPEG conversion would I think only happen when the shutter is pressed (well, at least, it doesn't need to be done before).

Where AF processing fits in this chain is speculation since I don't see any reason in principle why it couldn't happen after any of the steps. This includes working off the raw data since if contrast detect is all we're doing then we don't need to do the demosaicing. Equally, it could be done after the application of tone curves and if so, then changes to the contrast settings would influence its behaviour.

It would be nice to do some controlled tests, but I suspect it'll be a difficult thing to do properly.

raichea
12th October 2013, 03:32 PM
Where AF processing fits in this chain is speculation since I don't see any reason in principle why it couldn't happen after any of the steps. This includes working off the raw data since if contrast detect is all we're doing then we don't need to do the demosaicing.

This was my point in my earlier post... if I were the engineer designing this thing, I'd want to get the focus data as soon as possible to give the best possible performance.

Steve

Zuiko
12th October 2013, 04:08 PM
This was my point in my earlier post... if I were the engineer designing this thing, I'd want to get the focus data as soon as possible to give the best possible performance.

Steve

The way I look at it is that all the information, including user adjustments, is continuously being streamed from the sensor to the EVF. The process doesn't start with a press of whichever button is being used to engage focus, it is already happening at many times a second anyway.

raichea
12th October 2013, 04:40 PM
The way I look at it is that all the information, including user adjustments, is continuously being streamed from the sensor to the EVF. The process doesn't start with a press of whichever button is being used to engage focus, it is already happening at many times a second anyway.
True... but getting data later will still cause inaccuracies if things are changing... a bit like not knowing whether the sun has exploded for 8 minutes...

birdboy
12th October 2013, 05:38 PM
Without trying to be in any way disrespectful to these explanations do people know or they are guessing based upon what they would do having some detailed knowledge of the inner workings of a camera.

I would love to know in detail how the Oly designers implemented their features in this camera as in any other but so would the competition. We are not going to find out all you can do is experiment and judge for yourself by the results. I do not know enough about the way in which a camera takes light from a lens and converts it into a picture. I did have experience of converting analogue values to digital values in process control. If you give that task to 10 designers the chances are you will get 10 different ways of doing it.

I for one would rather folk reported upon the results rather than any guessing how that result was obtained. Sorry if that offends its not my intention but this forum is so useful I would not like to se it degenerate to a series of misinformation on the inner workings of a camera..

brian1208
12th October 2013, 06:27 PM
Quite agree with you "birdboy" - data rule - interpretation can wait

So, let's share what we get (and not get hung up on hypothetical argument! )

More importantly, if we share details of How we do something then others are able to try it for themselves and report back whether they are able to reproduce the observations - the "Scientific Method"

PeterBirder
12th October 2013, 06:58 PM
Matt Hope told me some settings to try, which he and Bryce Bradfield used and it enhanced their images captured of aircraft and Birds in Flight ! I hold both these chaps in the same "group" as yourself and the man from Bug - you all know a lot more than I now KNOW - or ever want too KNOW, about the technical design and workings of ??? !

BUT it works :) :D

You are quite right Chevvy , it works.

Having seen Matt's photos and as an electronics engineer thought about it I am satisfied that it is quite reasonable that it should work.

Regards.*chr

Zuiko
12th October 2013, 08:56 PM
Without trying to be in any way disrespectful to these explanations do people know or they are guessing based upon what they would do having some detailed knowledge of the inner workings of a camera.

I would love to know in detail how the Oly designers implemented their features in this camera as in any other but so would the competition. We are not going to find out all you can do is experiment and judge for yourself by the results. I do not know enough about the way in which a camera takes light from a lens and converts it into a picture. I did have experience of converting analogue values to digital values in process control. If you give that task to 10 designers the chances are you will get 10 different ways of doing it.

I for one would rather folk reported upon the results rather than any guessing how that result was obtained. Sorry if that offends its not my intention but this forum is so useful I would not like to se it degenerate to a series of misinformation on the inner workings of a camera..

Oh, in my case there is a lot of assumption based on what I can see in the viewfinder when settings are changed, even when shooting raw only. I don't offer those assumptions as in any way factual, merely plausible. You are right that we are in danger of getting bogged down in theoretical debate and the best way of evaluating the beneficial effect or otherwise of certain settings is to take side by side comparrisons in the field and post them on this forum. :)

brian1208
15th October 2013, 06:55 PM
Well, I'm part way through processing my images from the Hawk Conservancy today and there is Good News, Not so Good News and Bad News:

I'll get the "Bad" out of the way first, whilst I was experimenting with the Release Lag-time setting on Short (to see if I could cut down on the time it took for the CAF to grab the bird) I had 3 episodes of total lock up (I've reported this and await a reply from Olympus Support) Until I hear back from them to the contrary I would suggest it may be prudent to avoid using the Short setting for Release Shutter Lag with CAF.

What happened was that I heard a clunk and the EVF view jerked to the left (each time). Shortly afterward there was another clunk and the system locked solid, with the last shot showing on the LCD (which I had switched off!).

When I removed the battery there was another clunk and the system freed itself, the noise was similar to that which you here when you switch the system to Short Lag-time release, switch off and the on again

I think I will pause there to post this before moving on to the better news

(oh, by the way, the not so good news was that the light was dreadful and I was shooting ISO 800 - 1600 most of the time so not a lot of pics I'm particularly proud off / would want to share, but there may a few examples

brian1208
15th October 2013, 07:07 PM
Pt 2 The Good News:

CAF works with BIF shots from Lanner Falcon to Kites and Herons (but struggled a bit with the Peregrine - mind you, this could be because I struggled to keep up with it too :D )

I was working with the 75-300 and the 40-50 (to try for a bit more aperture latitude to cope with the aforementioned bad light) but the 40-150 was really too short a lot of the time

I tried it with IS in mode 1, Auto and Off and had the impression that Off was probably the most effective (but made acquiring and keeping the bird in the view-finder more difficult)

Normal CAF lock still seems to give the best results in this session and I stuck with 6 frames a second to enable focus following (which seemed to work quite well)

I've just been called away from the keyboard so will end this bit with my summation of how I see the EM-1 for BIF us vs the EM-5 and Canon 7D (scoring out of 10)

7D =10 (as my reference standard)

EM-1 = 8

EM-5 = 3

(subjective ratings based on the ease of acquiring the subject, keeping focus lock on and the final image)

I'll try and give some "Ferinstances" on what worked well, what was less good and what failed + a few pics later (so long as you promise not to criticise the pics, as I said above, there is nothing I am proud of)

Chevvyf1
15th October 2013, 07:08 PM
Well, I'm part way through processing my images from the Hawk Conservancy today and there is Good News, Not so Good News and Bad News:

I'll get the "Bad" out of the way first, whilst I was experimenting with the Release Lag-time setting on Short (to see if I could cut down on the time it took for the CAF to grab the bird) I had 3 episodes of total lock up (I've reported this and await a reply from Olympus Support) Until I hear back from them to the contrary I would suggest it may be prudent to avoid using the Short setting for Release Shutter Lag with CAF.

What happened was that I heard a clunk and the EVF view jerked to the left (each time). Shortly afterward there was another clunk and the system locked solid, with the last shot showing on the LCD (which I had switched off!).

When I removed the battery there was another clunk and the system freed itself, the noise was similar to that which you here when you switch the system to Short Lag-time release, switch off and the on again

I think I will pause there to post this before moving on to the better news

(oh, by the way, the not so good news was that the light was dreadful and I was shooting ISO 800 - 1600 most of the time so not a lot of pics I'm particularly proud off / would want to share, but there may a few examples

Brian, I have had EVF "blackouts" (the view went black and a clunk or two ... as if something stuck ) ... and thought it was me :eek: at Hayling last week and today at a Trout Farm ... :) and taking Dragonflys and Swans with a Crow here and there :) I was using C-AF and Tr and Is off :( cannot recall all other settings ...

I wonder ... :confused: :confused: :confused: I hear that a few "firmware updates are due soon - mainly for "unable to be completed functionality" ... but in the software industry it was also for "bug fixing" :rolleyes:

brian1208
15th October 2013, 07:11 PM
Brian, I have had EVF "blackouts" (the view went black and a clunk or two ... as if something stuck ) ... and thought it was me :eek: at Hayling last week and today at a Trout Farm ... :) and taking Dragonflys and Swans with a Crow here and there :)

I wonder ... :confused: :confused: :confused: I hear that a few "firmware updates are due soon - mainly for "unable to be completed functionality" ... but in the software industry it was also for "bug fixing" :rolleyes:


were you able to clear it by switching off / on or did you require a battery out to sort it?

Chevvyf1
15th October 2013, 07:17 PM
were you able to clear it by switching off / on or did you require a battery out to sort it?

switching off and on did not clear it - battery out ! and it was a new fully charged battery about 15 images earlier ! so not a dying battery !

brian1208
15th October 2013, 07:53 PM
Sounds very similar, what setting were you using?

Chevvyf1
15th October 2013, 07:59 PM
Sounds very similar, what setting were you using?

C-AF+Tr ; and IS off ; Contrast +2 ; Art Filter = Vivid ? Manual and ?

I deleted most of the images :( seeking perfection :( ... maybe reading your review I am selling this lot and off to Canon now :) !

brian1208
15th October 2013, 08:02 PM
C-AF+Tr ; and IS off ; Contrast +2 ; Art Filter = Vivid ? Manual and ?

I deleted most of the images :( seeking perfection :( ... maybe reading your review I am selling this lot and off to Canon now :) !

Chicken - fight to dominate you camera - don't run away from it! *chr

Chevvyf1
15th October 2013, 08:11 PM
Chicken - fight to dominate you camera - don't run away from it! *chr


Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! well as I am *rap at Bif :( I need all the help I can get :) Nick said same as you :( ...

... and I replied ... "I hold Brian in high regard if he gives Canon 10 and ONE 8 and 5 = 3 I believe him ! "

The best time to get rid of something is before you form a bond with it ... :eek:

brian1208
15th October 2013, 08:47 PM
update on the tracking ability with the settings used here. Checking the Peregrine sequence the system followed the bird right up until and after it hit the lure in the air (and you know how fast it comes in to do that)

Totally the wrong choice of lens though so only titchy images when cropped to see the action but I may post tomorrow when I have finished going through (I should mention that I never achieved this in the years I tried with my canon set-up, got the Lanner but never managed to get the Peregrine doing it. Today I got both the Peregrine and the Lanner taking the lure, must be the camera not me I think :) )

brian1208
15th October 2013, 09:09 PM
I have finished a quick process of the sequence, from the moment just after the "Thwack" as it hit the lure (very large crop) to the next 2 in the sequence is it flew of with the lure before the handler (not Cedric as I thought) brought it down to the ground

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/peregrine-hitting-the-lure_1381870934.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/peregrine-taking-the-lure-1_1381870935.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/peregrine-taking-the-lure-2_1381870937.jpg

pdk42
15th October 2013, 09:09 PM
You are quite right Chevvy , it works.

Having seen Matt's photos and as an electronics engineer thought about it I am satisfied that it is quite reasonable that it should work.

Regards.*chr

Well, I did some simple AF testing on static subjects in v.low light with minimal contrast edges. What I found was that the AF ability seemed to be independent of whatever settings I used for picture settings - vivid/muted, contrast +2/-2, ... If it focused at all then it focused whatever the settings. If it didn't focus, then no matter what fiddling I did, it still didn't focus.

I can't say it's a particularly scientific test, but short of doing lots of very detailed, statistically-significant testing in controlled conditions then I for one am fairly sure AF works independently of picture settings. I accept that I haven't tried it on moving subjects, but of course such a test would be even harder to do in a scientifically acceptable way.

Chevvyf1
15th October 2013, 09:32 PM
I have finished a quick process of the sequence, from the moment just after the "Thwack" is it hit the lure (very large crop) to the next 2 in the sequence is it flew of with the lure before Cedric brought it down to the ground

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/peregrine-hitting-the-lure_1381870934.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/peregrine-taking-the-lure-1_1381870935.jpg

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/peregrine-taking-the-lure-2_1381870937.jpg


Brian, very interesting ...

Here is an E-5 and 50-200 low light, winter capture (mid Nov late afternoon, as the Peregrine hits the lure .. yes REAL fast

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/Peregrrine_in_yellow_trees.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/54367)


So, do you feel that the ONE is better than the E-5 ? :cool:

Phill D
15th October 2013, 09:57 PM
Definitely better I'd say from those images. I can't say personally as I've never tried an E5 though. Time will tell as people get used to the new kit. Don't give up yet we all need to learn together. If you give up too soon you'll never know if you'd have mastered it and you'd miss all the fun trying.

brian1208
15th October 2013, 10:01 PM
So, do you feel that the ONE is better than the E-5

not having used the E-5 I can't comment Chevvy, but I've just been through a load my Peregrine images and I may have to up my rating of the EM-1 to a 9! Its even tracked the peregrine going across a bit of the meadow and held focus as it goes behind grass, and got some shots at near top speed..

I must repeat this work with a longer lens the next time I get a chance because in the main they are titchy little images from a big background, not very good for sharing really

brian1208
16th October 2013, 05:52 AM
I have a gallery of a few images here http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/gallery/peregrine-images-19978

please remember, these are not "great images" but do demonstrate how the CAF locked on and tracked this small and very agile bird in flight

brian1208
16th October 2013, 06:09 AM
I've got a few of my Lanner images up here, although shot at ISO800 the light was better and the slower flight means I was able to get better detail in these images.

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/gallery/lanner-falcon-19979

This is one I was quite pleased with (still want a re-match under good light though :D )

the key thing here is how its locked onto the bird and ignored the messy background, with the EM-5 it would most likely have gone for the railings and posts

shot using the 40-150 with f8 at I/2000th sec (speed is the key), ISO 800

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/lanner-meadow-pass_1381903517.jpg

StephenL
16th October 2013, 06:45 AM
Evidence to my eyes that the M1 is delivering the goods.

Chevvyf1
16th October 2013, 06:50 AM
Brian, had you tried the Matt Hope Tip ? "... increasing the size of the green focus rectangle ?

or not ? :(

I have not given up - just not bothered about Bif until Spring :)

I think the ONE is a great little camera :D so far :eek:

brian1208
16th October 2013, 07:16 AM
I don't remember the tip (its me age! ;) ) but during the last two shoots I've used every combination from the smallest single point, through, large single, 9 point and all points.

Each has their place depending on the subject, size, speed and objective of the shot

Its not the best time for BIF work as even when the sun is out its very low level, at the best yesterday I was working with ISO 400 but most of the time it was 800 and 1600 (and even then I couldn't get the high shutter speed I wanted most of the time)

Its got to be done though! :)

Here is one of a sequence of 3 of a Golden Eagle passing in front of a tree, a nice tempting target for the focus to wander, but it didn't, keeping locked on across a couple of trees - shot with ISO 800, f7.1 and 1/200th sec. I think this may have been with the Panasonic 35-100 at 66mm
http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/golden-eagle-in-front-of-tree-3_1381906880.jpg

Chevvyf1
16th October 2013, 07:43 AM
I don't remember the tip (its me age! ;) ) but during the last two shoots I've used every combination from the smallest single point, through, large single, 9 point and all points.

Each has their place depending on the subject, size, speed and objective of the shot

Its not the best time for BIF work as even when the sun is out its very low level, at the best yesterday I was working with ISO 400 but most of the time it was 800 and 1600 (and even then I couldn't get the high shutter speed I wanted most of the time)

Its got to be done though! :)

Here is one of a sequence of 3 of a Golden Eagle passing in front of a tree, a nice tempting target for the focus to wander, but it didn't, keeping locked on across a couple of trees - shot with ISO 800, f7.1 and 1/200th sec. I think this may have been with the Panasonic 35-100 at 66mm
http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/images/sites/21/gallery/original/golden-eagle-in-front-of-tree-3_1381906880.jpg


.
.
VERY nice :D Yes ! :D

Ian
16th October 2013, 08:00 AM
Come on Brian, you can't post interesting shots like that without including the exif metadata :) Can we help you to preserve that information? What software are you using?

Ian

andym
16th October 2013, 08:37 AM
I can't say it's a particularly scientific test, but short of doing lots of very detailed, statistically-significant testing in controlled conditions then I for one am fairly sure AF works independently of picture settings. I accept that I haven't tried it on moving subjects, but of course such a test would be even harder to do in a scientifically acceptable way.

I willing to be shown different but I can't see how it could be any other way.Any program designer will make the most important thing ie focus and metering the highest priority.Why would you want to overload the processor and slowing it down by thinking about things that can be done later ie contrast etc.

Unless whoever wrote the script doesn't know what their doing and I can't believe that.*yes*yes*yes

Now I'll duck :eek::eek::eek:

brian1208
16th October 2013, 09:10 AM
As I think I explained earlier Ian, in an attempt to keep the quality up I have taken to copying these images directly from my Website (which strips out the EXIF). I will go back and add the required info in a bit (I'm busy completing an article on my early experiences with the EM-1 at the moment)

So much to do and so little time to do it - I've been retired for 17 years and still can't tell you what being retired is like - I'm too darned busy! *chr

edit

Ian, I need a little help here, is there anyway I can download my images direct from my folders as this should keep the EXIF with the image. I can't copy the data from either LR5 or PSP 12 and don't really want to go back to using Flikr or Photobucket as they seem to mess up the quality

brian1208
16th October 2013, 10:37 AM
re: the camera lock-up, I wonder if this may have some relevance (not that the camera was knocked or jarred, but perhaps there is something a bit fragile in the electro-magnetic side of the system?)

the manual, talking about using release lag-time "Short":

* This will shorten the battery life. Also make sure that the camera is not subject to sharp
impacts while in use. Such impacts may cause the monitor to stop displaying subjects. If
this happens, turn the power off and on again.

still waiting to hear back from Olympus, when I do I will ask the question

David Morison
16th October 2013, 05:51 PM
Although I have been staying on the edge of the Antiniotissa Lagoon NR in Corfu for over a week, I have had little chance to do any worthwhile BIF work as very little was in the air except a couple of distant Ospreys and Marsh Harriers. With this limited experience of distant birds I would definitely rate the EM1 as a 7 or less against the 7D's 10 but I have a lot more to do on this. It's a pity we can't combine the superior IQ of the EM5 with the AF performance of the 7D!

David

Ian
16th October 2013, 06:01 PM
As I think I explained earlier Ian, in an attempt to keep the quality up I have taken to copying these images directly from my Website (which strips out the EXIF). I will go back and add the required info in a bit (I'm busy completing an article on my early experiences with the EM-1 at the moment)

So much to do and so little time to do it - I've been retired for 17 years and still can't tell you what being retired is like - I'm too darned busy! *chr

edit

Ian, I need a little help here, is there anyway I can download my images direct from my folders as this should keep the EXIF with the image. I can't copy the data from either LR5 or PSP 12 and don't really want to go back to using Flikr or Photobucket as they seem to mess up the quality

Maybe you could use the free gallery space here on the site?

Ian

brian1208
16th October 2013, 08:33 PM
I'll have a look at that Ian, thanks.

Other sites (are there any other ;) ) let me download direct from my folders on the PC and the FAQ for this site indicated it was possible, suggesting one could "browse" the PC to select the file to show here, but none of the controls they mention to do this appear here, hence my confusion

Chevvyf1
16th October 2013, 09:54 PM
I'll have a look at that Ian, thanks.

Other sites (are there any other ;) ) let me download direct from my folders on the PC and the FAQ for this site indicated it was possible, suggesting one could "browse" the PC to select the file to show here, but none of the controls they mention to do this appear here, hence my confusion

Brian maybe "post attachment" ?

brian1208
17th October 2013, 08:17 PM
Brian maybe "post attachment" ?

I looked at that but its a teeny tiny little image, worse than going through Flikr, which may end up being the least worst option.

I'm still going through the HCT images and not only did I get the Peregrine taking the lure but I also repeated it with the Lanner - first time ever for both

What a lovely bit of kit the EM-1 (even with its "Funny Little Ways" :p )

I could begin to believe I may be a half way competent photographer if it carries helping like this ! *chr

Chevvyf1
17th October 2013, 08:20 PM
I looked at that but its a teeny tiny little image, worse than going through Flikr, which may end up being the least worst option.

I'm still going through the HCT images and not only did I get the Peregrine taking the lure but I also repeated it with the Lanner - first time ever for both

What a lovely bit of kit the EM-1 (even with its "Funny Little Ways" :p )

I could begin to believe I may be a half way competent photographer if it carries helping like this ! *chr

Well, if that last paragraph is true OF YOU, :D there may be hope :cool: for mere mortals ... :eek:

brian1208
17th October 2013, 10:03 PM
OK, lets see if these will work, the first and fourth in the series of the Lanner hitting and carrying the lure

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/10335433545_69afe949ef_b.jpg

cropped

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3826/10335605943_d5383323dc_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5530/10335443806_322557a0de_b.jpg

cropped

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2853/10335422534_bf6b36e220_o.jpg

Bah humbug, still no EXIF, I must be an incompetent old fool! :o

Chevvyf1
18th October 2013, 07:44 AM
Maybe here :eek: strips the exif ?

brian1208
18th October 2013, 09:15 AM
I've finished my gallery of Lanner flight shots here :

http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com/gallery/lanner-falcon-19979

Although some of these are from JPG with the standard sharpness (so show a bit of halo in some) they are as good as anything I was able to get with my 7D + 70-300 LIS (but maybe that says something about how rubbish I was with the canon system? :D )

all shot with ISO800, shutter speeds between 1/1250th - 1/2000th sec, f8 with centre point or 9 box focus using the Olympus 40-150

they are also all cropped to a degree, the flight shots are around 30% of frame (1300 - 1400 pix on the longest side) and the uncropped lure shots are around 50% - 60% of frame

Ian
18th October 2013, 10:32 AM
Maybe here :eek: strips the exif ?

What?!

Ian

Ian
18th October 2013, 10:38 AM
Brian maybe "post attachment" ?

No No No!

I have pleaded with people on all our forums not to use Attachments for showing photos. If you are going to upload a photo to our site, upload it to the gallery so that it can be seen and appreciated by a much larger audience. Once a thread has fallen off the radar an attached photo may never be seen again while in the gallery it has a good chance of being seen for a long time by many more people.

I have even got to the stage where I disabled file attchments on the DPNow forum and may yet do that here.

Please use the gallery, sharing (BB) code generated by your third party photo sharing site, or your own web space using the url-based Insert Image button here.

Ian

Ian
18th October 2013, 10:40 AM
I'll have a look at that Ian, thanks.

Other sites (are there any other ;) ) let me download direct from my folders on the PC and the FAQ for this site indicated it was possible, suggesting one could "browse" the PC to select the file to show here, but none of the controls they mention to do this appear here, hence my confusion

Try viewing this video tutorial:

http://e-group.uk.net/video/e-group-gallery/e-group-gallery.html

and then this one:

http://e-group.uk.net/video/e-group-image-post/e-group-image-post.html

I really need to update these but they do the job.

Ian

Zuiko
18th October 2013, 10:54 AM
No No No!

I have pleaded with people on all our forums not to use Attachments for showing photos. If you are going to upload a photo to our site, upload it to the gallery so that it can be seen and appreciated by a much larger audience. Once a thread has fallen off the radar an attached photo may never be seen again while in the gallery it has a good chance of being seen for a long time by many more people.

I have even got to the stage where I disabled file attchments on the DPNow forum and may yet do that here.

Please use the gallery, sharing (BB) code generated by your third party photo sharing site, or your own web space using the url-based Insert Image button here.

Ian

Some of my gallery pictures have had well over 3,000 views.

brian1208
18th October 2013, 11:00 AM
Try viewing this video tutorial:

http://e-group.uk.net/video/e-group-gallery/e-group-gallery.html

and then this one:

http://e-group.uk.net/video/e-group-image-post/e-group-image-post.html

I really need to update these but they do the job.

Ian


Thanks Ian, that's what I have been looking for, but for some reason kept missing on the Gallery page (I did say I was a stupid old man! :o )

I'll have another go this afternoon and maybe that will finally get me sorted

David Morison
18th October 2013, 11:02 AM
I upload all my images into this forum's gallery or DpNow's then I can copy and paste into other forums - just makes life easier. Although many images are on my Pbase site I don't upload to any other site from there, preferring to upload separately to Facebook etc.

David

brian1208
18th October 2013, 03:31 PM
this is why I'm getting frustrated, I've followed the instructions, uploaded an image to my gallery Early Days, it showed as having been uploaded, I saw it there, but when I went back to put it up here, the gallery is showing "no images in this gallery"

I'm convinced that Technology hates me at the minute (and I'm not really thick, I started using computers in 1959! :( )

Bummer - I'm giving up for the rest of the day and away over the week-end, (although I may check in now and then for a peep)

Ulfric M Douglas
18th October 2013, 03:38 PM
Brian you could do what I do : maybe clunky but I get to them.
Click "Gallery", middlish on the grey bar at the top of this page.
Then try clicking "my photos" on the second greyish bar from the top.
Its next to "my albums" and "my favourites" : ignore those.

Got your photos there now?

Zuiko
18th October 2013, 03:45 PM
Brian you could do what I do : maybe clunky but I get to them.
Click "Gallery", middlish on the grey bar at the top of this page.
Then try clicking "my photos" on the second greyish bar from the top.
Its next to "my albums" and "my favourites" : ignore those.

Got your photos there now?

It sounds like Brian may have uploaded his pictures as an album, in which case they don't appear in the gallery (I think).

Brian, in theory creating albums is a neat way of storing images but in practice I find it less confusing to keep them all just in the Gallery.

StephenL
18th October 2013, 03:58 PM
Brian, in theory creating albums is a neat way of storing images but in practice I find it less confusing to keep them all just in the Gallery.
I just keep them all in the main Gallery and happily ignore Albums.

Zuiko
18th October 2013, 04:11 PM
Brian, I'm having trouble locating your pictures either in the general gallery or in an album. Are you certain that you completed the upload?

brian1208
18th October 2013, 04:16 PM
Thanks all, it told me it had John, as I say, I looked into my gallery once it told me it had finished and saw it displayed, that's what had me bamboozled.

I'm leaving it for now - its been one of those days, I'll have another go with a fresh mind next week :)

Ian
18th October 2013, 04:25 PM
There are several stages - once the images are uploaded and you see them listed with thumbnails you need to complete the process by clicking a button at the bottom of the page called 'Process'. Otherwise the upload will be discarded.

Maybe that is the problem?

Ian

brian1208
18th October 2013, 04:30 PM
Thanks, that sounds like the answer Ian, its funny how one's mind gets stuck in a rut. I'm so used to doing it differently for another site I use I keep missing the flipping obvious, sorry

Chevvyf1
18th October 2013, 06:01 PM
Thanks, that sounds like the answer Ian, its funny how one's mind gets stuck in a rut. I'm so used to doing it differently for another site I use I keep missing the flipping obvious, sorry

ORRR :eek: they are tooo BIG ... have to be under 512 I think ? :cool:

brian1208
18th October 2013, 06:12 PM
I hate to be beaten by a stupid computer and now have it in the gallery BUT it displays a nice little panel underneath that says something on the lines of - "Copy the code below to display original image in forum" but when I try to copy it I am unable too

I hate this system! :confused:

Here is the pic but its not come in with its EXIF intact as far as I can see

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/eagle_owl_for_EM-1_site.jpg (http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=66694)

I got this one here by using the copy function on the image itself, not on the code box, which was inoperative

(its a pretty rubbish pic by the way - just something to try to crack the mysteries of posting here)

Chevvyf1
18th October 2013, 06:26 PM
I hate to be beaten by a stupid computer and now have it in the gallery BUT it displays a nice little panel underneath that says something on the lines of - "Copy the code below to display original image in forum" but when I try to copy it I am unable too

I hate this system! :confused:

Here is the pic but its not come in with its EXIF intact as far as I can see

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/eagle_owl_for_EM-1_site.jpg (http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=66694)

I got this one here by using the copy function on the image itself, not on the code box, which was inoperative

(its a pretty rubbish pic by the way - just something to try to crack the mysteries of posting here)

Brian, you are not alone :eek: I tried this too and for the time being this morning - gave up - as pottery at Tilehurst, Berks was fast approaching and I was still at home :rolleyes: I shall try again later this evening after Dins Dins :)

brian1208
18th October 2013, 06:26 PM
http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/a_passing_Heron.jpg

by jove, I've done it (no idea how though :confused: ) and I think it may have the EXIF viewable. A better shot from the Hide at HCT, shot using the 75-300 on the EM-1 as the Heron appeared into view in the window

Nope, I can't see the EXIF - oh bum! :mad:

David Morison
18th October 2013, 06:26 PM
I hate to be beaten by a stupid computer and now have it in the gallery BUT it displays a nice little panel underneath that says something on the lines of - "Copy the code below to display original image in forum" but when I try to copy it I am unable too

I hate this system! :confused:

Here is the pic but its not come in with its EXIF intact as far as I can see

http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/eagle_owl_for_EM-1_site.jpg (http://www.e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=66694)

I got this one here by using the copy function on the image itself, not on the code box, which was inoperative

(its a pretty rubbish pic by the way - just something to try to crack the mysteries of posting here)

Brian, left click the code box to highlight and Control C to copy. Then you can right click/paste in your post as normal.

David

brian1208
18th October 2013, 06:47 PM
Thanks David, another super-star helps a doddery old fool *chr

That has cracked it!

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/lanner_taking_the_lure_4.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/66696)

Chevvyf1
27th October 2013, 10:52 AM
Just reading a few comments by Bryce Bradford

There's a whoooolllleee lotta crap flying around here, so I'll boil it down pretty good:

The OM-D can ONLY use C-AF and C-AF+TR with Micro 4/3 lenses.
It CANNOT do C-AF or C-AF+TR with 4/3 lenses via an adapter.

You had the camera set to High Burst, which utilizes C-AF all the way until you release the shutter, at which point the focus becomes locked until you stop the burst.
To utilize C-AF, use LOW Burst. The camera will attempt to re-focus for EVERY photo.

C-AF+TR is worlds harder to use with any sort of success than regular C-AF.
Regular C-AF is not 100% accurate. In my best experience it pulled off 90% accuracy in a ~30% burst, in my most-referred-to experience it pulled off 87% accuracy:
www.flickr.com/photos/brb_photography/7666546034/


For best results, use the following settings:
C-AF
Low Burst (4fps)
Single AF area
IS Off
Vivid color mode (S+2, C0, RGB+2)

For a most enjoyable experience, don't *expect* anything to the level of your Canon gear.

bilbo
27th October 2013, 11:23 AM
The OM-D can ONLY use C-AF and C-AF+TR with Micro 4/3 lenses.
It CANNOT do C-AF or C-AF+TR with 4/3 lenses via an adapter.

This applies to the E-M5, not the E-M1.

Chevvyf1
27th October 2013, 11:26 AM
This applies to the E-M5, not the E-M1.

YES thats right and this thread is Bif EM-5 and EM-1 *chr

bilbo
27th October 2013, 11:27 AM
YES thats right and this thread is Bif EM-5 and EM-1 And your post didn't specify which one you were meaning.

So I clarified. *chr