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View Full Version : Is the OMD-EM1 a replacement for the E5 or the OMD-EM5?


birdboy
13th September 2013, 09:26 PM
So Oly made an E7*yes and have opted for the OMD-EM1 to be the replacement for the E5:mad:. The delay of 29ms in the EVF is significant. I tried panning with the EM1 and clearly noticed that delay in picture update. I don't know how significant that would be for me with panning bikes and birds.

The jury is still out on the performance of FT lenses on the EM1. Is there anyone with an E5 who is impressed with FT performance on the EM1.

The next big disappointment is the compatibly with those expensive accessories us FT owners have spent. Remote cable RM=CB1, wireless flash FL50R and infra red remote RM1 non of which I understand work on the OMD-EM1. Of course you cannot tether the EM1 either and the EM1 does not work with Olympus studio. If I have these wrong then please correct me.

Does anybody know if there is a relationship between exposure of photocells to light and age. That is will the sensor degrade over time because it is more exposed to light and being permanently turn on.:eek::eek:

I am left feeling that if I buy into the OMD-EM1 I am effectively buying into a completely new system. It is not an upgrade to my E5.

Ian
13th September 2013, 09:37 PM
It's not a replacement for the E-M5. That is a current model which is a fair bit cheaper than the E-M1. The E-M1 is a flagship Micro Four Thirds camera. But it also happens to be a solution that Four Thirds camera users can seriously consider.

Ian

Ian
13th September 2013, 09:43 PM
You can tether an E-M1, and in a more sophisticated way than before, only you need to use an iOS or Android device rather than a PC. Olympus aren't promising it but they haven't said they won't do PC-tethering in the future.

Ian

birdboy
13th September 2013, 09:45 PM
It's not a replacement for the E-M5. That is a current model which is a fair bit cheaper than the E-M1. The E-M1 is a flagship Micro Four Thirds camera. But it also happens to be a solution that Four Thirds camera users can seriously consider.

Ian

The question is would an E5 owner seriously consider it (of course they would) and buy it (time will tell)?

I have not heard many comments from E5 owners with a good selection of FT glass give their views.

David Morison
13th September 2013, 10:10 PM
The delay of 29ms in the EVF is significant. I tried panning with the EM1 and clearly noticed that delay in picture update. I don't know how significant that would be for me with panning bikes and birds.

IMO EVF as currently available is unable to match OVF for subjects such as BIF. This is because the image in the viewfinder when using sequential shooting is presented as a series of stills rather than the actual moving image in an OVF. This makes it difficult to predict the direction of a bird's flight when panning. The other issue which I noticed on the E-M1 (and E-M5) is that when using the "L" burst rate the still images are interspersed by momentary blackouts, further degrading panning performance. This is particularly annoying as CAF is only available for all shots when using "L" on the E-M1. However there may be settings which can improve this - only time will tell!

I am impressed with the AF using my Leica 14-150mm as it appears better in low light than on my E5.

David

birdboy
13th September 2013, 10:32 PM
Thanks David I value your experience with this type of photography. I do agree with you on this point. I really cannot see an EVF competing with an OVF. In sports 1ms can be the difference between success and failure. I also understand the advantages of an EVF but still think they are in the early days. In some respects I am luckily in that I am reasonably happy with what I have got at the moment and do not want to go backwards.

graham_jester
13th September 2013, 10:37 PM
Hi there
I am an E-5 user of three years and have been exceedingly happy with its performance, particularly its OOC JPEGs (having previously been a RAW devotee!) except, that is, in low light conditions.
I was 'tempted' by the OM-D E-M5, given the very positive feedback given by many users on this site.
However, like many others with a significant investment in 4/3 lenses, I was waiting for the E-7!
From what I now read the E-M1 is probably a better solution than an E-7, particularly if it allows me to continue to use my investment in 4/3 lenses, achieve results on a par with that of my E-5 and, importantly, allow me to take advantage of the many m4/3 benefits that will undoubtedly ensue!
Somewhat tempted by the very attractive launch offers of free HLD-7 and MMF-3, I have now pre-ordered an E-M1 + 12-50 lens and tomorrow look forward to seeing one closeup, hopefully coupled to 4/3 glass and delivering great AF performance!
Graham Jester

bilbo
13th September 2013, 10:54 PM
The question is would an E5 owner seriously consider it (of course they would) and buy it (time will tell)?

I have not heard many comments from E5 owners with a good selection of FT glass give their views.I've got an E-3 and a good selection of FT glass. My order for the EM-1 is in. Where else am I to go?

David M
13th September 2013, 11:32 PM
Given I only ever use single shot and manual focus for my bird/wildlife photography I don't know if the EVF will be a problem but I suspect not.

bredman
14th September 2013, 01:45 AM
So Oly made an E7*yes

And for those wondering

http://photorumors.com/2013/09/12/this-is-the-olympus-e-7-four-thirds-camera-that-may-never-be-released/

Zuiko
14th September 2013, 02:46 AM
If they did develop an E-7 it proves just how committed Olympus are to supporting their Four Thirds lens range, effectively having a ready-made contingency plan should they be unsuccessful in developing a MFT focusing solution in time. The fact that they did not feel the need to launch the E-7 is testamony to their confidence that the E-M1 provides a suitable solution. :)

benvendetta
14th September 2013, 06:14 AM
I've got an E-3 and a good section of FT glass. My order for the EM-1 is in. Where else am I to go?

There is nowhere else for us to go if we want to carry on using our 43rds glass.

joglos
14th September 2013, 06:39 AM
I really wanted to go down the EM-1 route but still have the concerns re BIF especially panning. I used a friends GH2 shortly this week for a Harris hawk flying over a lake and really find the EVF a nightmare to use to follow birds when shooting. I know the Oly's EVF is better but any loss of sight is the shot gone.

So I think I will wait a bit and see how others get on before deciding which way to go

Ross the fiddler
14th September 2013, 07:12 AM
............The next big disappointment is the compatibly with those expensive accessories us FT owners have spent. Remote cable RM=CB1, wireless flash FL50R and infra red remote RM1 non of which I understand work on the OMD-EM1. Of course you cannot tether the EM1 either and the EM1 does not work with Olympus studio. If I have these wrong then please correct me.............

The FL50R shouldn't be a disappointment as it works quite well on & off the hotshoe in RC mode with the E-M5 & should also on the E-M1 with greater power than the FL600. The only part that doesn't operate on the E-M5 is the infrared focus assist part of it & it would be nice if it was optional on the E-M1 instead of the in-body focus assist light.

bilbo
14th September 2013, 07:47 AM
The FL50R shouldn't be a disappointment as it works quite well on & off the hotshoe in RC mode with the E-M5 & should also on the E-M1 with greater power than the FL600. The only part that doesn't operate on the E-M5 is the infrared focus assist part of it & it would be nice if it was optional on the E-M1 instead of the in-body focus assist light.Ian - I'd be interested to know how the FL-50R is supported by the new camera please.

Thanks
Brian

Shaw
14th September 2013, 08:00 AM
Ian - I'd be interested to know how the FL-50R is supported by the new camera please.

Thanks
Brian


And the old FL36 (not FL36R)?

vchaney
14th September 2013, 08:32 AM
I've been using my fl50rs on my em5 for ages. They work on camera and wirelessly in the same way as on the e5. It is the same flash system, it's the focus systems that are different. The IR focus assist won't work because its not visible light so is useless for CDAF. Whether this assists PDAF on the em1 is the only question.

bilbo
14th September 2013, 08:46 AM
I've been using my fl50rs on my em5 for ages. They work on camera and wirelessly in the same way as on the e5. It is the same flash system, it's the focus systems that are different. The IR focus assist won't work because its not visible light so is useless for CDAF. Whether this assists PDAF on the em1 is the only question.Thanks - it was just that the FL-50R (and its relatives) isn't mentioned in the E-M1 manual. Only the FL-300R and FL-600R are down as remote flash units.

birdboy
14th September 2013, 11:12 AM
I've been using my fl50rs on my em5 for ages. They work on camera and wirelessly in the same way as on the e5. It is the same flash system, it's the focus systems that are different. The IR focus assist won't work because its not visible light so is useless for CDAF. Whether this assists PDAF on the em1 is the only question.

This is interesting as the Em1 manual shows that the FL50R is not part of the system chart. If the EM1 is supposed to be the upgrade for the E5 and FT bodies you would have thought it would be compatible with other parts of the system. It seems that it is not and that's why I say the EM1 is a new system and not a replacement for FT bodies.:(

Ross the fiddler
14th September 2013, 11:21 AM
Thanks - it was just that the FL-50R (and its relatives) isn't mentioned in the E-M1 manual. Only the FL-300R and FL-600R are down as remote flash units.

They're not mentioned in the E-M5 manual either. The table (for compatible flashes) in the E-M1 manual is identical to that of that of the E-M5 manual.

Ross the fiddler
14th September 2013, 11:27 AM
This is interesting as the Em1 manual shows that the FL50R is not part of the system chart. If the EM1 is supposed to be the upgrade for the E5 and FT bodies you would have thought it would be compatible with other parts of the system. It seems that it is not and that's why I say the EM1 is a new system and not a replacement for FT bodies.:(

It does seem like an oversight to not mention them & with the exceptions, however, the specs online has this:
"Compatible external flash units FL-50R, FL-36R, FL-50, FL-36, FL-14, FL-300R, FL-600R"

Olybirder
14th September 2013, 11:29 AM
They're not mentioned in the E-M5 manual either. The table (for compatible flashes) in the E-M1 manual is identical to that of that of the E-M5 manual.
Could it just be that all the flashes in the table are current models, whereas the FL50R is, I believe, discontinued? That doesn't mean it won't work but they can't have every compatible flash, past and present, listed in the table.

Ron

Ross the fiddler
14th September 2013, 11:55 AM
Could it just be that all the flashes in the table are current models, whereas the FL50R is, I believe, discontinued? That doesn't mean it won't work but they can't have every compatible flash, past and present, listed in the table.

Ron

That's most likely it.

Ian
14th September 2013, 11:57 AM
The question is would an E5 owner seriously consider it (of course they would) and buy it (time will tell)?

I have not heard many comments from E5 owners with a good selection of FT glass give their views.

I think there is plenty of evidence that lots of E-5 owners have ordered the E-M1. You only have to look at posts here on the forum here.

Maybe the better question is why have E-5 owners opted for the E-M1? Of course there are E-System photographers who have either rejected the E-M1 option or are still not sure it's for them. I sense that the biggest hurdle for these is affordability because the E-M1 is not an inexpensive camera.

Ian

birdboy
14th September 2013, 12:19 PM
I highlight the external flash gun issue because on Page 130 of the manual it says this. "The upper limit of the shutter speed is 1/250 sec. when using a flash."

I use the FL50R on my E5 in Super FP mode at shutter speeds greater than 1/250sec

Here is an example when I use flash.
E5 50mm f2 1/800s f8 iso 400
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/P9044930.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/65616)

birdboy
14th September 2013, 12:29 PM
I think there is plenty of evidence that lots of E-5 owners have ordered the E-M1. You only have to look at posts here on the forum here.

Maybe the better question is why have E-5 owners opted for the E-M1? Of course there E-System photographers who have either rejected the E-M1 option or are still not sure it's for them. I sense that the biggest hurdle for these is affordability because the E-M1 is not an inexpensive camera.

Ian

For me its not a question of affordability, it is a question of will it do the job I want it to. I have a budget that this camera comfortably sits in and I even have a wife who says I can buy if it will do the job I want. :) The camera is new and makes many claims of compatibility with FT bodies and lenses. Olympus bill it as a replacement for the E5.

Anne
14th September 2013, 12:36 PM
I highlight the external flash gun issue because on Page 130 of the manual it says this. "The upper limit of the shutter speed is 1/250 sec. when using a flash."

I use the FL50R on my E5 in Super FP mode at shutter speeds greater than 1/250sec

Here is an example when I use flash.
E5 50mm f2 1/800s f8 iso 400
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/P9044930.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/65616)

I 'think' you can do that with the E M5 so I guess that would be the same with the E M1. I haven't used it myself but after I bought the 50r from a forum member, I did a lot of reading up on using flash as previous results were pretty inconsistent. I am sure I read super FP is an option with the camera and I saw it as an option in the settings (camera or flashgun). However I struggle with using flash and putting any knowledge from reading into practice, so someone else with the E M5 might be better able to address this point! Apologies if I am wrong.

Ross the fiddler
14th September 2013, 12:38 PM
I highlight the external flash gun issue because on Page 130 of the manual it says this. "The upper limit of the shutter speed is 1/250 sec. when using a flash."

I use the FL50R on my E5 in Super FP mode at shutter speeds greater than 1/250sec

Here is an example when I use flash.
E5 50mm f2 1/800s f8 iso 400

The E-M5 can use FP TTL flash up to a maximum shutter speed of 1/4000 sec & the E-M1 should be able to use it up 1/8000 sec. The upper limit specs, I believe, refer to normal TTL flash use.

Ian
14th September 2013, 12:49 PM
The E-M1 can flash sync in standard mode up to 1/320th. It is fully compatible with all R-series FL flash units for wireless remote operation. All you need to do is fit the included mini flash unit which acts as the wireless commander.

I have heard that the FL-36R is discontinued and now replaced by the FL-600R, but I have not heard that the FL-50R is discontinued and have asked for clarification on this.

Ian

Ian
14th September 2013, 12:51 PM
For me its not a question of affordability, it is a question of will it do the job I want it to. I have a budget that this camera comfortably sits in and I even have a wife who says I can buy if it will do the job I want. :) The camera is new and makes many claims of compatibility with FT bodies and lenses. Olympus bill it as a replacement for the E5.

What are your concerns about whether or not it will do the job you expect of it?

Ian

Anne
14th September 2013, 12:56 PM
I spent a couple of hours in SRS this morning playing with the E M1 again :) Nice to meet other forum members in there! :D

I went up there to try the 70-300 on the camera and just to try it out again in a quieter environment. I didn't order it although I was very, very tempted simply because I am not sure (with my photographic level) that it will offer me anything else at the moment that I won't get from the E M5 with a lot more practice. I hope this makes sense.


However playing around with it, changing menu options, lenses etc it felt far more natural in my hands than it did on Thursday and going back to the buttons on the E M5 felt quite odd and small :) I also had a play with C AF and C Af tracking so I have a better understanding of how they work now however I'm not sure the type of photography I do really needs them. At some point I would like this camera though and right now I have to keep stopping myself from going to the phone :D

By the way, if you are thinking of ordering it, you might want to order from SRS today, mention the offer they had on their website on Tuesday for a free battery and bag, in addition to the grip and adapter. If you mention it they will still offer you it although they are not advertising it. Just don't say I told you :D it definitely makes it a good price with the extras.

StephenL
14th September 2013, 01:27 PM
Go on, Anne, you can justify it really! Nice to meet you again!

Anne
14th September 2013, 01:41 PM
Go on, Anne, you can justify it really! Nice to meet you again!

Noooooo......Stephen, don't tempt me :)

I have just been trying to tell myself I don't need it especially after trying the keyline 'focus peaking' on the E M5 and not finding it easy. I have also been trying to customise the function buttons and they feel quite fiddly.....I keep telling myself it is psychological as they were fine before Tuesday :D

Back up to Watford now for the footie....I shall make sure I don't go near SRS!

Good to catch up with you today :)

birdboy
14th September 2013, 02:01 PM
What are your concerns about whether or not it will do the job you expect of it?

Ian

I love photography and the taking of pictures for our own personal memory of places we have been. Prior to 2008 and the E3 I had a Olympus C765UZ it was at the time a great little camera for everything but action and in particular BIF. I think it had an EVF.

I am really concerned that if I was to buy the EM1 I will lose some of the functionality I have at the moment with the E3 & E5 and miss shots because the camera did not refresh in the time I needed it too. I also do not want to be buying more remote trigger cables and flash guns. I am very interested in the EM1 as a potential addition to my equipment and that's why I have been reading the manual before buying the camera.

It also annoys me that Olympus very quickly dropped FT in favour of mirrorless bodies before the technology has properly matured. EVF and OVF should be run in parallel. When the next gizmo comes along will they then drop MFT. No other leading camera manufacturers drops its range of backward compatibility in the way which Olympus does. They had an E7 they should have put it out for their customers to decide if that was the way to go. We are being driven by what Olympus wants to make and not what their customer want.

Olympus with all its inhouse AF testing knew that the EM5 would not perform well with FT glass and I am sure they know that their tests show that the EM1 does not exceed the E5 with FT glass as far as AF is concerned.

Olympus have made many claims about the new camera. Thanks to you I got to feel and see the new camera last Thursday. I made a note of things I wanted to test on the day. 1 AF performance with FT glass in particular my 50-200mm SWD. 2) the EVF and panning and 3) MF and focus peaking. Yes I liked the new lens 12-40f2.8 and I would expect that to outperform the 12-60mmSWD I have. I liked the big viewfinder and I like the ability to do time lapse photography in camera but these were nice to have.

It was a good friendly day and useful day but I have to say that the EM1disappointed me in that it did not do the things I set out to test. That may well be down to familiarity with the camera and it is a first impression.

John

Ian
14th September 2013, 02:15 PM
I am really concerned that if I was to buy the EM1 I will lose some of the functionality I have at the moment with the E3 & E5 and miss shots because the camera did not refresh in the time I needed it too. I also do not want to be buying more remote trigger cables and flash guns. I am very interested in the EM1 as a potential addition to my equipment and that's why I have been reading the manual before buying the camera.

I can't really think of anything about the E-M1 which is slower than the E-5 in the way you appear to be worried about. Is there anything specific?

The E-M1 is fully compatible with the Olympus dedicated flash system - there are no changes in this respect.

The E-M1 uses the same USB port system introduced by Olympus with the E-500 in 2005 so any compatible remote cable release will work with the E-M5. Yes, it's different to the E-5 and E-3, but every other E-System and Pen/OM-D camera model since 2005 has used the same USB port specification.

And don't forget that if you use an Android or Apple iOS smartphone or tablet you will be able to control the camera wirelessly over wifi in a very sophisticated manner.

Olympus with all its inhouse AF testing knew that the EM5 would not perform well with FT glass and I am sure they know that their tests show that the EM1 does not exceed the E5 with FT glass as far as AF is concerned.

I don't really understand the latter half of this particular comment. All the feedback I have had from Olympus in Japan combined with my own experience comparing the E-5 with the E-M1 I have relayed here on the forums basically amounts to confidence that the E-M1 AF is better than an E-5. There are some conditions where an E-5 will work better, but overall Olympus is confident that the E-M1 is better and so am I.

I do accept that Thursday's hands-on evening was a bit spoiled by the cameras being customised willy-nilly combined with inadequate experience (myself included!) resulting in less than ideal settings for testing things out. I feel responsible for that - we should have told everyone the procedure for resetting the cameras at the very least.

Ian



John[/QUOTE]

birdboy
14th September 2013, 02:38 PM
There are some conditions where an E-5 will work better, but overall Olympus is confident that the E-M1 is better and so am I.

[/QUOTE]

That's the thing where does the E5 work better. The one area I have heard Oly to refer to was in AF performance under low light what ever that may mean. Shooting in poor light is what we all have to put up with. So does that mean I can only get better shots on a sunny day:eek:

Is Olympus confident that the E-M1 is better than the E5 for BIF and panning at say motor cycle racing?

The British Super Bike Showdown is at Brands Hatch on the 20-22 Sep. Why not get some professional sports photographers to test out the new camera on that event with both FT glass and MFT glass.

Xenon
14th September 2013, 02:44 PM
That's the thing where does the E5 work better. The one area I have heard Oly to refer to was in AF performance under low light what ever that may mean. Shooting in poor light is what we all have to put up with. So does that mean I can only get better shots on a sunny day:eek:

Is Olympus confident that the E-M1 is better than the E5 for BIF and panning at say motor cycle racing?

The British Super Bike Showdown is at Brands Hatch on the 20-22 Sep. Why not get some professional sports photographers to test out the new camera on that event with both FT glass and MFT glass.[/QUOTE]

I agree.
There is little firm data to support whether there is a real improvement for C-AF on M4/3 lenses, particularly with the lack of cross-type PDAF points.

Is anyone prepared to say if the E-M1 is anywhere near as good as an entry level DSLR, or comparable to say a D7100, for BIF or action photography in general?

Ian
14th September 2013, 03:05 PM
That's the thing where does the E5 work better. The one area I have heard Oly to refer to was in AF performance under low light what ever that may mean. Shooting in poor light is what we all have to put up with. So does that mean I can only get better shots on a sunny day:eek:

It's all subjective and relative. The E-M1 can focus well with Four Thirds lenses in very low light - dark enough for the view through an E-5's optical reflex viewfinder to be very dim indeed. But, yes, my experience is that the an E-5 will continue to focus after the E-M1 gives up as the light gets dimmer. Is it a deal-breaker? - not at all. Micro Four Thirds lenses on the EM-1 focus in even darker light than an E-5. You also have the benefit of the EVF which works well after an optical finder becomes useless so you can manually focus in ridiculously dark conditions with the E-M1.

Is Olympus confident that the E-M1 is better than the E5 for BIF and panning at say motor cycle racing?

Olympus in Japan tell me that their own field tests indicate the E-M1 is better than an E-5 in C-AF for applications like BIF. I am not a BIF expert but Andy Elliot, who is, and uses an E-5, is so far impressed with his limited time on my own E-M1 using his lenses. Panning and motorcycle racing - I haven't tried this and some are not optimistic because of the EVF freezing in C-AF mode, but Olympus tells me that this is not so different from optical viewfinder blanking as the mirror flaps. We'll find out the truth as more people use the camera for things like panning.

There is little firm data to support whether there is a real improvement for C-AF on M4/3 lenses, particularly with the lack of cross-type PDAF points.

Of this there is absolutely no doubt - C-AF with Micro Four Thirds lenses until now was pretty hopeless unless the subject was fairly still in the frame. BIF, for example was almost impossible. PDAF in C-AF mode with MFT lenses is hugely superior.

The lack of cross type AF points is only a problem if you are focusing on regular horizontal detail, like venetian blinds. It is not a problem if you have amorphous details and that's mostly what you have with nature photography, for example.

Is anyone prepared to say if the E-M1 is anywhere near as good as an entry level DSLR, or comparable to say a D7100, for BIF or action photography in general?

The word I had from Akira Watanabe at Olympus in Japan is that their field tests showed the C-AF performance was similar to a Nikon D7100.

Ian

David Morison
14th September 2013, 03:08 PM
In my very limited experience of using the camera with my Leica 14-150mm at Rutland I can definitely say that it is as good if not better at low light AF as the E5.

David

Xenon
14th September 2013, 03:57 PM
It's all subjective and relative. The E-M1 can focus well with Four Thirds lenses in very low light - dark enough for the view through an E-5's optical reflex viewfinder to be very dim indeed. But, yes, my experience is that the an E-5 will continue to focus after the E-M1 gives up as the light gets dimmer. Is it a deal-breaker? - not at all. Micro Four Thirds lenses on the EM-1 focus in even darker light than an E-5. You also have the benefit of the EVF which works well after an optical finder becomes useless so you can manually focus in ridiculously dark conditions with the E-M1.



Olympus in Japan tell me that their own field tests indicate the E-M1 is better than an E-5 in C-AF for applications like BIF. I am not a BIF expert but Andy Elliot, who is, and uses an E-5, is so far impressed with his limited time on my own E-M1 using his lenses. Panning and motorcycle racing - I haven't tried this and some are not optimistic because of the EVF freezing in C-AF mode, but Olympus tells me that this is not so different from optical viewfinder blanking as the mirror flaps. We'll find out the truth as more people use the camera for things like panning.



Of this there is absolutely no doubt - C-AF with Micro Four Thirds lenses until now was pretty hopeless unless the subject was fairly still in the frame. BIF, for example was almost impossible. PDAF in C-AF mode with MFT lenses is hugely superior.

The lack of cross type AF points is only a problem if you are focusing on regular horizontal detail, like venetian blinds. It is not a problem if you have amorphous details and that's mostly what you have with nature photography, for example.



The word I had from Akira Watanabe at Olympus in Japan is that their field tests showed the C-AF performance was similar to a Nikon D7100.

Ian

Many thanks, Ian, for answering my questions so reassuringly :)

Much appreciated!

sponner
14th September 2013, 09:58 PM
Why not get some professional sports photographers to test out the new camera on that event with both FT glass and MFT glass.

I am one of those thinking the em1 isn't for me BUT I bet a pound to a pinch of anything that a pro photographer would tease superb images from an EM1.

Unfortunately i want a two body set up (in reality I can never be arsed to change lenses all the time). Size, ovf v evf, grips etc. etc. are pretty irrelevant to me. I have hobbled my choices by investing in d800 imo the prosumer camera capable of the best images around ( emphasis on capable).

Image quality and ergonomics are the deal breakers I bet the EM1 will have those in spades.

What it doesn't give me is price v performance (it may do that if i was ditching the D800 and going for a two mft solution but low light is the clincher there) for a second body hence my for sale thread.

I have seriously considered an em1 and e5 set up. I get more"keepers" from my E5 THAN i DO MY d800.

Apart from low light, unless you print larger than A3 the E5 is awesome.