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Sisi
6th September 2013, 12:16 PM
Hi,
I have just noticed than when you set the OMD to RAW the camera lens is actually seeing a lot more of the image than one sees in the viewfinder as it shows you with the white lines the image. I'm currently using the 45mm lens so it looks like the image has been cropped therefor if you use jpeg?
Can someone tell me then how to use the maximum that the lens sees?

Hope this makes sense!
Thanks.

Sisi

pvasc
6th September 2013, 12:24 PM
Sounds like the digital teleconverter is on. Don't know if you get white lines with RAW and using a different aspect ratio, but they are there with the D.T.C.

Anne
6th September 2013, 12:28 PM
I get the white lines when I change the image aspect ratio from 4/3 to something else. I sometimes use the 16/9 ratio and I see those white lines and I generally shoot RAW.

Sisi
6th September 2013, 12:38 PM
Sounds like the digital teleconverter is on. Don't know if you get white lines with RAW and using a different aspect ratio, but they are there with the D.T.C.

Ah! Excellent! Thank you so much. The digital tele converter explains it! Could't think why the image was being cropped!:)

Ian
6th September 2013, 03:06 PM
This is just the kind of thing this site was designed to achieve :D

Ian

pvasc
7th September 2013, 07:43 AM
Ah! Excellent! Thank you so much. The digital tele converter explains it! Could't think why the image was being cropped!:)

You are welcome.

Naughty Nigel
3rd October 2013, 09:43 PM
May I ask two further questions about shooting raw with the EM-5?

Firstly, does the noise filter work on raw files as well as Jpeg's, or only on Jpeg's?

(I prefer to work from raw files, but jpeg's are always handy, and I can Dropbox them home when I'm abroad, which I cannot do with 32 GB of raw files!)

Secondly, there seem to be numerous options for saving images to raw files and Jpeg's simultaneously, but none of the documentation that I have seems to fully explain what these options are.

Is there any more detailed information on these options anywhere?

Zuiko
3rd October 2013, 11:57 PM
The noise filter does not apply to raw files, only JPEG, but I believe it can be applied to the raw file at development stage if you are using Olympus Viewer 3 software.

The various JPEG options recorded simultaneously with raw relate to resolution and compression. For example, LSF = Large Super Fine which uses the full number of pixels with the least compression. LN is Large Normal, still with the maximum pixels but compressed more to achieve a smaller file size. MN (Medium Normal) and SN (Small Normal) respectively record progessively fewer pixels and are handy, say, for quickly uploading to a website. Raw files, of course, always use the maximum number of pixels and are uncompressed, at least in theory.

Naughty Nigel
4th October 2013, 09:17 AM
Thank you John for your explanation. There are so any options in the EM-5's menu it is difficult to know where to start! :confused:

The EM-5's raw files are compressed, but the compression is lossless; unlike Jpeg compression, which loses some detail, depending on the compression chosen.

As far as I know, the E1 was the only Olympus DSLR not to compress its raw files. The E500 which followed used file compression, which is just as well given how slow the E500's USB connection was!

As a point of interest, we have found that the E500's data cable fits the OM-D EM-5, which is handy to know as it doesn't use a standard Mini or Micro USB connection. Thankfully though, the EM-5's data transfer rates are much faster than the E500's.

I haven't tried the Olympus Viewer 3 software (I gave up after buying Viewer 1, which was painfully slow), so I do everything in Photoshop. Maybe I should give it a try. Presumably the noise reduction in Viewer 3 is only available if converting raw files to another format?

Ian
4th October 2013, 10:28 AM
Hi Nigel - a RAW file is just that; it's RAW data off the sensor. It has no true colour or tone and by itself can't actually be displayed as a picture.

When you view a RAW image using RAW conversion software, that software has to make some assumptions about the RAW data and convert accordingly. If you open a RAW file in, say, 5 different programs, it will look slightly different in each one because each will have different default values for colour, tone (brightness and contrast), sharpness, noise management, etc.

So many times I see people who think that by using a RAW file opened in, say, Photoshop, that this will be the best possible image quality but to actually achieve that you need to make adjustments yourself and this does require some skill.

If you don't want or feel you have the ability to do that then use in-camera JPEG images. These will often be better than a RAW simply opened without adjustments in a RAW conversion program.

Olympus Viewer 3 is a RAW converter with a difference as it is completely dedicated to Olympus cameras and their RAW format files in particular. Viewer understands the data in the RAW file that relates to camera settings and so it will, by default, create a view that is equivalent to the in-camera JPEG file you would have got from the camera. That includes the noise filter setting.

You are right; adjustment settings, including the noise filter, are only made 'real' when you create a new image file from the RAW file (the RAW file never changes) - and that could be a JPEG or a number of other image file formats.

Ian

Naughty Nigel
4th October 2013, 11:53 AM
Thank you Ian. I have been happily using raw files from my E1, E5 and Canon G-series camera for many years, and would agree with what you say.

However, my puzzlement was with the sheer number of options in my OM-D EM-5's menu, and also my doubts about whether noise reduction was applied to raw images. I know that noise subtraction can be applied (if selected) to raw images when using high ISO speeds, but I was unsure about general noise reduction.

Anyhow, I have installed Viewer 3 and will give that a try.

Ian
4th October 2013, 12:09 PM
Olympus differentiate between 'noise filter' and 'noise reduction' - the former is to reduce noise grain using normal exposures and the latter is a dark frame subtraction process to remove hot pixels that become visible during long exposures.

I am not aware that any noise management is applied to RAW files by Olympus. Some camera manufacturers like Sony do offer this as an option with some of their cameras.

Ian

Naughty Nigel
4th October 2013, 12:16 PM
I am fairly sure that noise subtraction system (using a dark frame) works on my E1, and I think the E5 at high ISO speeds.

Otherwise why would the noise subtraction filter be seen working when the camera is set only to save to raw files?

I think I need to do some experimentation! *yes

photo_owl
4th October 2013, 12:17 PM
Olympus differentiate between 'noise filter' and 'noise reduction' - the former is to reduce noise grain using normal exposures and the latter is a dark frame subtraction process to remove hot pixels that become visible during long exposures.

I am not aware that any noise management is applied to RAW files by Olympus.

Ian

surely the 'noise reduction' is noise management, and is applied when creating the RAW files?


As far as I know, the E1 was the only Olympus DSLR not to compress its raw files.

E400 also

photo_owl
4th October 2013, 12:22 PM
I am fairly sure that noise subtraction system (using a dark frame) works on my E1, and I think the E5 at high ISO speeds.

Otherwise why would the noise subtraction filter be seen working when the camera is set only to save to raw files?

I think I need to do some experimentation! *yes

noise reduction via dark frame subtraction is a function of shutter duration not ISO and does, as I suggested in my post above, apply to RAW files (which logicaly it should because it's removing sensor data rather than image data

noise filtration is progressive in terms of ISO settings and deals with image data when rendering an image from a RAW file (either in camera or in an image manipulation/viewing application)

Ian
4th October 2013, 01:18 PM
Most cameras offer dark frame subtraction and yes it does apply to RAW files but what I was referring to was Sony's option that applies a real-time noise filter to the RAW data before the RAW file is saved. When Sony introduced this there was a backlash from some (Sony users) quarters and Sony had to modify the system to make it optional.

Ian

Naughty Nigel
5th October 2013, 12:52 PM
Most cameras offer dark frame subtraction and yes it does apply to RAW files but what I was referring to was Sony's option that applies a real-time noise filter to the RAW data before the RAW file is saved. When Sony introduced this there was a backlash from some (Sony users) quarters and Sony had to modify the system to make it optional.

Ian

Interesting. Noise filters do sometimes remove detail from images, and if there is no option to switch them off!

As a point of interest, how do shutter-less cameras like the OM-D expose a dark frame when there is no shutter to prevent light from reaching the sensor? :confused: