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sapper
25th August 2008, 12:44 AM
Cuxton residents do not have easy access to the river Medway, a boat club and marina seem to own the frontage. I took this from where the fence had been broken down. I took a few photographs but chose this one because of the people, they give context to the photograph.
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/8248100.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7780)

Graham_of_Rainham
25th August 2008, 03:49 PM
By the look of those clouds this was taken during last week. The sun has just broken through for you enough not to have a completely "grey" image. It looks from the shadows that this is late afternoon or early evening and the warm coloured light has really enhanced this for you.

If you crop the bottom off I think the picture is improved as the distracting forground is then not taking your eye away from the subjects

*chr

sapper
25th August 2008, 06:44 PM
By the look of those clouds this was taken during last week. The sun has just broken through for you enough not to have a completely "grey" image. It looks from the shadows that this is late afternoon or early evening and the warm coloured light has really enhanced this for you.

If you crop the bottom off I think the picture is improved as the distracting forground is then not taking your eye away from the subjects

*chr

It was taken last evening,17.44.
Here is a crop as you suggested.
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/8248100-2.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7806)

shenstone
25th August 2008, 08:12 PM
Dave

I have to admit not liking this shot in either crop. It's adequate as a record shot, but nothing more than that as it's busy in the distribution of any focal points and flat in tone.

Maybe a lot wider to make more of that dramatic looking sky?

I'm surprised that this is in looking for perfection as you have so many fine shots in your gallery so we all know what you can produce.

Regards
Andy

sapper
25th August 2008, 08:27 PM
Sorry you don't like it Andy.

Dave

I have to admit not liking this shot in either crop. It's adequate as a record shot, but nothing more than that as it's busy in the distribution of any focal points and flat in tone.

Maybe a lot wider to make more of that dramatic looking sky?

I'm surprised that this is in looking for perfection as you have so many fine shots in your gallery so we all know what you can produce.

Regards
Andy

shenstone
25th August 2008, 09:11 PM
Sorry you don't like it Andy.

On reflection "not liking" is probably too strong a phrase. It simply doesn't strike me as perfection. You have soem stunning pictures in the gallery e.g. Venice & Poppy and those are so much more what I would like to be able to emulate

Regards
Andy

shirley
26th August 2008, 08:54 AM
Andy,
I am a little confused by your post. I understood that posting here is not saying 'I think this picture is perfect' its saying 'I recognise that this may not be quite right, can you help?'
The title of the board is 'Looking for perfection' not 'Perfection achieved'.

I thought that by posting here you are saying please critique this pic as hard as you like. I certainly have posted pics here that I know are not perfect in any stretch of the imagination, but because I want to improve my skills I usually post here in the hope of receiving constructive and helpful critique, which I have always received. I have even on occasions posted pics that I recognise are poor but I want some help as to how I could have done it better. In fact I rarely post in Foto Fair as I always want feedback on any pics I post.

I hope you dont mind me trying to clarify, it would be a shame if people only felt they could post perfect pics here...:eek: I dont think I would be able to post here again:D.

It could be that Dave recognises that this is not an earth shattering pic but would like some feedback on how to improve it - which in my opinion is what this forum is about.

Hi Dave,
While I am here I will add my twopennyworth. I do agree with Andy that the picture is too busy, I recognise that it was probably difficult for you to get some different compositions but it might have been better to try and emphasise on one or two main features. I would also attempt to use the people as a focus of interest, perhaps by using a slower shutter speed and blurring them to give some sense of movement in the image. I hope this is helpful. You notice I use the word try and attempt, these are just ideas, and I am not sure that I would be able to do either of them, they are just my rambling thoughts and I hope you dont mind me commenting.
Shirley

shirley
26th August 2008, 09:25 AM
I hope you dont mind but I have had a little play and edited as I suggested. I realise that I have had to crop heavily so it pixelates at larger size but it gives an idea of what I had in mind. I did blur the people but it could probably take a little more. I also used levels to bring out the reflection of the white boat.
I realise that this is a very different image to the one you started with and it may be that you were aiming at a wider view, but this is an alternative that might interest you.
I will happily delete this if you would like me to, please just say.
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/Cuxton_river_edited-1.jpg

The Judge
28th August 2008, 11:04 AM
Well I totally agree with this Shenstone chap that this picture does not belong in here. Of course I will be slated for saying this and carded again by the site fellow whilst no doubt everyone else will get praised for their wisdom.

Onto the image. You actually have the ingredients of a good image. Boats are interesting and pleasing to most people and will often make a good subject. Water is the second ingredient. People are captivated by water, just watch people who cross a bridge and stare downwards into the river. The third is the people themselves. So the image has all the properties that is true but sadly it has them in the wrong place and in the wrong proportion. It does look to cluttered and the sky and lighting convey a dull feeling to something that should be far shinier and vibrant. Whilst Shirley has done reasonably well to rescue your picture it is actually a far cry from the original idea and probably not what you was aiming for. Of course your image is a pleasing everyday image to look at as it recorded a scene of everyday folk going about their recreational activities so who could possibly take offence? Certainly not a crusty old judge from the bench like me!

The point is that your picture does not belong in the perfection thread but would get a very warm welcome in the foto fair area. My suggestion the next time you visit the scene would be to associate the 3 key areas much closer. Look for a closer link with people and boats for example, or the boats and water. there must be plenty of detail you could study I am sure.

All in all a nice picture that captures a scene but falls short of the thread requirements and only really qualifies in the "snapshot" category.

sapper
28th August 2008, 11:33 AM
Thank you all for your comments.
When I posted this shot, I was not sure about it, hence the posting.

Judge, please remember this, "This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism."
This forum is not for perfect pictures as you seem to assume, but for folk to post and receive feedback.
I must admit, I did not have a lot of time to rearrange the elements but will keep your comments in mind if I re visit the scene.

Shirley, you have improved the brightness of the image but I am still not sure about it.

Shenstone, on my monitor, which is calibrated regularly, the image does not look flat in tone although the clouds are dark.

I did take a couple of pics without the people, the sun was on the far bank, I will post one later for your comments.
I will not take offence, just grateful for your comments, this forum is to help each other.

shenstone
28th August 2008, 05:49 PM
Dave

I wholeheartedly apologise for any comments that have caused offence or that the Judge may have associated himself with.

I had not intended to cause offence, just comment on the picture as proposed in the forum.

You will note that I never suggested that this should not have been posted (as has been inferred by 2 people now), but only that I think you have many that I belive are better (IMHO) in your gallery. There is no restriction on this forum board.

Regards
Andy

sapper
28th August 2008, 06:19 PM
Andy, I did not think that you did want to cause any offence, my comment was to ensure that folk know that I will not take offence even if it were offered, life is too short.
As regards, "Judge", well he has his ways, I don't think he meant to cause offence, if he did, too bad, I didn't take any:)

Dave

I wholeheartedly apologise for any comments that have caused offence or that the Judge may have associated himself with.

I had not intended to cause offence, just comment on the picture as proposed in the forum.

You will note that I never suggested that this should not have been posted (as has been inferred by 2 people now), but only that I think you have many that I belive are better (IMHO) in your gallery. There is no restriction on this forum board.

Regards
Andy

shirley
28th August 2008, 08:11 PM
Dave

I wholeheartedly apologise for any comments that have caused offence or that the Judge may have associated himself with.

I had not intended to cause offence, just comment on the picture as proposed in the forum.

You will note that I never suggested that this should not have been posted (as has been inferred by 2 people now), but only that I think you have many that I belive are better (IMHO) in your gallery. There is no restriction on this forum board.

Regards
Andy


Hi Andy,
I also apologise if I misunderstood your comment, I simply wanted to clarify, and have no desire to cause you offence by suggesting things you had not intended and I am sorry if I provoked unwanted comments.

I think this site is fantastic and I love seeing everybody's contributions and the comments people make. I firmly believe that the vast majority of people on this site only want to help and encourage others- I think I am only aware of one person who may have other motives and as has been suggested several times we can choose to ignore him....or is it a her?
On a personal level I find constructive critique very difficult to make because I know that it would be unlikely that I would do any better and therefore do not have the right to critique others, however I know I have really appreciated the comments and feedback which I have gained from this and a few other sites that I am eager to give something back, so I am feeling my way.

*chr here's to a continued and healthy site with lots of help and support for those who want it.
Thanks for reading this Andy and I hope there are no hard feelings.
Shirley

theMusicMan
29th August 2008, 07:13 AM
Well said Shirley, well said.. we can all drink to that.

Just to clarify also - Dave is right - this particular forum category is not just meant for 'perfect pics', but also rather 'looking for perfection' i.e. people who post here are happy and willing to have their photographs critiqued, and look forward to receiving constructive feedback on what's posted. It is fair to say that the expectation for images in here would I feel, be that they are perhaps the posters more worthy images - but this is not necessarily so.

Hope that clarifies things... cheers all *chr

theMusicMan
29th August 2008, 07:16 AM
Of course I will be slated for saying this and carded again by the site fellow whilst no doubt everyone else will get praised for their wisdom.
No need to be spiteful, we both have names and I know that you are aware of them. I have been polite to you and feel you should be the same in return.

Less of the sarcasm, arrogance and condescending attitude, and perhaps more of the constructive comments you post would be most welcome - not just from myself, but from everyone I feel. Thanks.

art frames
29th August 2008, 08:54 AM
Cuxton residents do not have easy access to the river Medway, a boat club and marina seem to own the frontage. I took this from where the fence had been broken down. I took a few photographs but chose this one because of the people, they give context to the photograph.
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/8248100.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7780)

Dave

Getting back to the picture..

This for me is about the light and the fleeting moment that such light exists for. I have tried to catch such moments myself, and know how quickly they pass. It has a really nice glowing warmth and quality to it and you have captured the glow in the grass and parts that have been cropped away on some of the others.

I agree that the composition isn't textbook but I wanted to give feedback on the atmosphere which is there. I have looked at it each time it has come into the new posts (so about 10 of the total hits are spurious!) and each time I get a real buzz from the light and warmth juxtaposed with the heavy sky which seems to show the passing of a storm and peace after.

If I were to encourage anything it would not be to arrange picture elements in a frame it would be to continue to try to capture the quality of the moment through light.

Peter

sapper
29th August 2008, 09:14 AM
Dave

Getting back to the picture..

If I were to encourage anything it would not be to arrange picture elements in a frame it would be to continue to try to capture the quality of the moment through light.

Peter

Thank you Peter.
Could you explain just what you mean by your last comment, maybe give examples?

Graham_of_Rainham
29th August 2008, 09:34 AM
It was taken last evening,17.44.
Here is a crop as you suggested.
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/8248100-2.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7806)

Dave,

This is for me a much better composition, and here is my reasoning:-

Whenever I stand looking at a view like this, I tend to scan the scene horizontally. My view of the world tends to be panoramic when looking into the distance, so I often ignor the foreground. I also find myself reading the scene from left to right so I expect moving things to be travelling in that direction.

In this image the white boat is pointing in the "natural" direction, the people are walking towards and to the RHS of the image, the vertical posts provide a draw to my eye from "vanishing point" off to the top/left 1/3rds intersect.

Which all leads me towards liking this image and seeing it as being quite carefully constructed.

*chr

art frames
29th August 2008, 09:39 AM
Thank you Peter.
Could you explain just what you mean by your last comment, maybe give examples?

Dave

OK. On this occasion the light is a particular type/quality that I like. In one direction the sky is dark and heavy grey but in the other it is suddenly open, warm and bright. It tends not to be like that for many seconds. But whilst it is there it illuminates in a unique way (people - esp. faces and hands catch the light and stand out against the grey so do other animals - for me more than the white of the boat) It is something that painters try to catch (try looking at Holman Hunt http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/detail/Detail_hunt_william_holman.html). The light is used to highlight many points of interest. This is a perfect example of a jumble of a composition pulled together by light.

But other examples of light are just as good. Obviously rising and setting sun (once again getting the exact moment of colour and mood) but what about light when it is foggy in autumn with bonfires and smoke. Another great painting shows that but won't come to mind.

Does this help?

Peter

sapper
29th August 2008, 10:19 AM
Thanks Peter, it does.
There is mixed light in this pic, I like the brooding clouds and the way the light falls on the white boat.

Dave

OK. On this occasion the light is a particular type/quality that I like. In one direction the sky is dark and heavy grey but in the other it is suddenly open, warm and bright. It tends not to be like that for many seconds. But whilst it is there it illuminates in a unique way (people - esp. faces and hands catch the light and stand out against the grey so do other animals - for me more than the white of the boat) It is something that painters try to catch (try looking at Holman Hunt http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/detail/Detail_hunt_william_holman.html). The light is used to highlight many points of interest. This is a perfect example of a jumble of a composition pulled together by light.

But other examples of light are just as good. Obviously rising and setting sun (once again getting the exact moment of colour and mood) but what about light when it is foggy in autumn with bonfires and smoke. Another great painting shows that but won't come to mind.

Does this help?

Peter

sapper
29th August 2008, 10:19 AM
Thanks for your comment Graham.

art frames
29th August 2008, 10:32 AM
Thanks Peter, it does.
There is mixed light in this pic, I like the brooding clouds and the way the light falls on the white boat.

Dave

I think we agree on the light. I think it would look especially good say on the red coloured sail of a Thames barge with that sky behind.

Peter