PDA

View Full Version : 4/3 lenses no longer working


Tordan58
27th May 2013, 07:53 AM
When using (or rather trying to use) my 4/3 lenses on my brand new OMD, connecting them with the MMF-3 I get nothing but a black display/EVF except from the information/control panel.

Shutter cannot be fired.

The issue is regardless of which 4/3 lens I try. (Have tried all of them).

Connecting the 12-50 m4/3 lens, or a legacy lens the camera functions as it should.

It used to work the other day.

Has anyone experienced a similar behavior? Is there a well hidden setting somewhere that I may have accidentally changed?

Pierre L
27th May 2013, 08:14 AM
I am not aware of any such settings and I regularly 4/3 lenses on my OMD through an MMF-3. At the risk of stating theobvious (and with apologies) is your MMF-3 on properly (i.e. until it locks).
I have just done a quick test: if I have the MMF-3 on, even with no lens mounted, I get a very fuzzy picture on the screen which changes as I point the camera to different things. If the adapter is almost in place but not quite (so that the electrical contacts aren't made), the screen shows settings only. If I take the adapter off, I can see the fuzzy picture again.
By the way, I always switch the camera off before changing lenses (except for the 1% of times when I forget!). I don't know whether this is mandatory or not.
Hope this helps

Pierre L
27th May 2013, 08:19 AM
Incidentally, I find that the MMF-3 adapter is much stiffer to fit than my lenses (or perhaps it feels that way because there is so little to hold). But if it's not in all the way, the electrical contacts wouldn't be made.

Tordan58
27th May 2013, 08:22 AM
I am not aware of any such settings and I regularly 4/3 lenses on my OMD through an MMF-3. At the risk of stating theobvious (and with apologies) is your MMF-3 on properly (i.e. until it locks).
I have just done a quick test: if I have the MMF-3 on, even with no lens mounted, I get a very fuzzy picture on the screen which changes as I point the camera to different things. If the adapter is almost in place but not quite (so that the electrical contacts aren't made), the screen shows settings only. If I take the adapter off, I can see the fuzzy picture again.
By the way, I always switch the camera off before changing lenses (except for the 1% of times when I forget!). I don't know whether this is mandatory or not.
Hope this helps
Hi Pierre,
Yes the MMF3 is well in place and locks, same with the lenses. With the MMF3 only I get an OOF picture. I usually, but not always, turn power off when changing lens, but have not noticed any different behavior.

David Morison
27th May 2013, 08:23 AM
On the odd occasion that I have not locked the MMF3 on properly I still get an image on the EVF but no f-stop info and no AF of course, never a blank view.

David

Tordan58
27th May 2013, 08:26 AM
Incidentally, I find that the MMF-3 adapter is much stiffer to fit than my lenses (or perhaps it feels that way because there is so little to hold). But if it's not in all the way, the electrical contacts wouldn't be made.
I guess it has to do with the fitting since the MMF3 is supposedly wheather proof.

PS The MMF3 I am using is also brand new, has been un/mounted less than 5 times.

Pierre L
27th May 2013, 08:27 AM
Before I leave the floor to someone else who might have heard of a setting, are the pins where your lens is going in good order. If so, it would sound as though you adapter has broken. Sorry, I have no further ideas.

Otto
27th May 2013, 08:32 AM
I noticed that the MMF-3 has to be fitted to the body first, then the lens mounted on the MMF-3. Fitting the adapter to the lens and then the assembly to the body gave odd results.

Tordan58
27th May 2013, 08:35 AM
Before I leave the floor to someone else who might have heard of a setting, are the pins where your lens is going in good order. If so, it would sound as though you adapter has broken. Sorry, I have no further ideas.
Pierre,
The pins both look and feel right. I have a hard time accepting/realizing an expensive, genuine Olympus MMF3 adapter would break down after 5 times use.

Tordan58
27th May 2013, 08:37 AM
I noticed that the MMF-3 has to be fitted to the body first, then the lens mounted on the MMF-3. Fitting the adapter to the lens and then the assembly to the body gave odd results.
Thanks Otto,
This is the order in which I have mounted my gear. Adapter first, then lens.

Pierre L
27th May 2013, 08:44 AM
I agree and I have had mine for 6 months, have taken it on and off several times and it still works fine (as one would expect, considering the cost and genuineness). But new equipment occasionally goes wrong, sadly. I am not sure what the adapter does, except that there are nine pins on one side and eleven on the other. My OMD is at level 1.6 firmware.

Imageryone
27th May 2013, 11:23 AM
Not a problem I have had with an adaptor, but I had direct to my E-1, it turned out to be a sticky pin, cured by gently depressing them a few times using the end of a Biro refill. I now do this regularly every 3 months, no trouble now for 3 years.

Bruce Clarke
27th May 2013, 05:32 PM
Yes, sticky or dirty pins seems the obvious answer. Worth massaging them all with a clean cloth, which will clean them at the same time.

Tordan58
28th May 2013, 10:10 AM
No, the pins are neither sticky nor dirty. The adapter is as new, has been (un)mounted less than 5 times before it broke somehow.

Does anyone know if there is any electronics involved between the 11 female connections on the micro 4/3 side (facing the camera body) and the 9 male pins on the 4/3 side (facing the lens), or are two extra pins simply wired?

If nor, this leads to the question if two signals (and which ones) have been added from the 4/3 interface to the m 4/3 interface?

Bruce Clarke
28th May 2013, 10:44 AM
I presume the pins and connectors are joined by a ribbon cable. It sounds like it hasn't been properly assembled. I would return it for an exchange or warranty claim if it's too late for that.

Tordan58
28th May 2013, 07:57 PM
I think I cracked the code.

The issue is not due to the adapter, but due to the camera, or rather some flaw/imperfection in the design or implementation of the interface between 4/3 lens and m 4/3 body.

It's kind of strange and a bit long explanation, but here is the story, reconstructed from memory and behavior possible to reproduce.

Background: With my E620 I often use a programmable AF confirm chip (also known as dandelion chip) with my legacy lenses. The chip populates the EXIF with lens data, which is programmed into the chip by a rather archaic interface using camera controls and buttons. It also helps in assessing correct focus.

When mounting my legacy lens I used a chipped adapter ring that I had not used before on EM5. Next I attached the lens and EC14 to the body, turned power on in anticipation of a situation, but never took any picture that day.

On next photo session I used a non-chipped adapter ring. Taking pictures without EC14 works fine but as soon as mounted the EC14 I got a black screen and could not fire the shutter. I checked camera body and 12-50 micro 4/3 lens combination - camera works. Tested with a 4/3 lens I had in my bag - black screen. Back home I tested my 4/3 lens collection and got the same behavior for all 4/3 optics.

With this as background it is easy to draw conclusion that the m4/3 - 4/3 adapter is broken somehow, causing some bad electrical signal that would disable the image from being displayed on camera EVF/LCD. This is the point when I wrote this post. Several here recommended me inspection and cleaning of pins, however this did not help.

What I did next was to dig deeper. Full reset of camera, did not help. Next I picked a lens mounted on a chipped adapter of a different make that I have never used with this camera. I mounted the lens and the camera came to life!

This is when I rewinded the tape, replaying the scenes. I was able to reproduce the sequence of events.

The strange thing is that the chip I used in the first place somehow managed to put a brand new m 4/3 camera in a state where a connection to a full working 4/3 lens would be detected as a faulty connection, without any recovery possible.

You may raise the opinion that the fault is mine, that I should never have used a third part electronics - but based on previous experience on 4/3 body there was not a strong reason to suspect this weird behavior was going to happen. Even more strange is that use of another third part electronics did fix the issue.

One would have expected the design of the lens-body interface to be more robust than this.

Had I sent in the m4/3 - 4/3 adapter to Olympus it would have come back reported as "no fault".

Sorry for long post, thought some of you may be interested.


/Tord

OM USer
28th May 2013, 10:34 PM
So attaching a "dodgy" chipped adapter + legacy lens stops 4/3rds lens + EC14 +MMF3 adapter working, and then attaching a "working" chipped adapter + legacy lens makes the 4/3rds lens + EC14 +MMF3 work again. Have I got this right?

It sounds like a nightmare. Well done for figuring it out.

Tordan58
28th May 2013, 10:48 PM
Almost. The dodgy chip caused the camera to stop working with any 4/3 lens.

Falk
28th May 2013, 11:10 PM
I have followed this interesting story along and am really happy for you Tord, that you came out okay!

One would have expected the design of the lens-body interface to be more robust than this.
Yes, I would definately say so.

David M
28th May 2013, 11:28 PM
I don't think Olympus can be expected to test their cameras with all the various dandelion chips out there.

Tordan58
29th May 2013, 07:50 AM
I don't think Olympus can be expected to test their cameras with all the various dandelion chips out there.

On that I agree, and I am not blaming Olympus for that. In this case the dandelion chip generated a signal/output that somehow was detected by the camera body in a way that put it in an error state, and that is fine.

What surprises me is the design or implementation of the camera-body interface not able to recover from the error state, or produce adequate error messages guiding user what to do.

The proper way to handle the situation would have been to design the error handler in the following:

As the dodgy chip was used, issue a useful error message that user needs to acknowledge. "Unknown lens/faulty lens" or something like that.
After the camera-lens connection was found to be working, have the camera SW reset the error handler, and next time a 4/3 optics was used check if it was working and not assume it was broken by default.
Alternatively, offer a way to proceed with a coldstart (complete reset) of the camera SW, which would reset the interface as well. There is probably a way to do so by activating controls/buttons at power on but it is not documented to my knowledge.

I was real lucky to have another dandelion chip that by accident issued the signal/s that unlocked the camera...

Otto
29th May 2013, 08:21 AM
It's probably worth telling Olympus all about this so that they can fix the bug in a future firmware update. I use an unchipped adapter, and given your experience I'd be reluctant to swap to a chipped one! Anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted :).

OM USer
29th May 2013, 10:22 AM
Leaving the battery out for a few days may have reset the camera sufficiently by clearing whatever the reset didn't.

Tordan58
29th May 2013, 10:44 AM
It's probably worth telling Olympus all about this so that they can fix the bug in a future firmware update. I use an unchipped adapter, and given your experience I'd be reluctant to swap to a chipped one! Anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted :).
Thanks,
The advantages with an AF on the EM5 are to large extent gone since the EVF/LCD magnification feature does the job, and better. Only missing is the focal length and F number in EXIF but these can patched afterwards so it is not a big issue.

I plan to contact Olympus and report the incident as you are suggesting. Possibly it is related to the AF interface being different between m 4/3 and 4/3?

/Tord

Ralph Harwood
4th June 2013, 02:37 AM
Hi everyone!

I'm sorry I'm a little late posting this, but I'm sure that I have read somewhere that you shouldn't have more than one adapter on a lens at a time - I think due to communication issues. Therefore the MMF and the EC-14 together may have caused an issue without the involvement of the dandelion chip. Did you try the 4/3 lenses without the EC-14 on the MMF?

Cheers,

Ralph.

Ralph Harwood
4th June 2013, 02:44 AM
Hi everyone!

Here it is :- http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3274198

Second comment down, being a quote from olympus saying 2 adapters "isn't recommended". Lots of comments further down as to why this might be, no one thought it might lock up the camera though.

Cheers,

Ralph.

David Morison
4th June 2013, 05:30 AM
Hi everyone!

I'm sorry I'm a little late posting this, but I'm sure that I have read somewhere that you shouldn't have more than one adapter on a lens at a time - I think due to communication issues. Therefore the MMF and the EC-14 together may have caused an issue without the involvement of the dandelion chip. Did you try the 4/3 lenses without the EC-14 on the MMF?

Cheers,

Ralph.

I had problems using the EC14 together the MMF3 with my ED 300mm f2.8 but it was only a strange rattling noise from inside the lens and didn't affect the camera, wasn't there when only the MMF3 was used.

David

Tordan58
4th June 2013, 02:03 PM
Hi everyone!

Here it is :- http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3274198

Second comment down, being a quote from olympus saying 2 adapters "isn't recommended". Lots of comments further down as to why this might be, no one thought it might lock up the camera though.

Cheers,

Ralph.
Ralph,

Thanks for the comment but the issue has nothing to do with stacking adapters. If you check the thread again the issue appears whenever I use that chipped adapter and is due to that particular AF confirm chip putting the camera in a non-functional state.

Cheers
Tord

Footloose1949
17th June 2013, 11:17 PM
Fit the MM-F adapter onto another lens, (using your body) and see if you get the same fault. If you do, the odds are that the adapter has a fault.