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Ralph Hardwick
30th December 2012, 11:32 PM
Greetings all. This is only my second post (although i have 'lurked' for years) and I'm cheekily going to ask for help

I currently own an Olympus E520 with 2 kit lenses(hardly used), Zuiko 9-18mm, 12-60 & 70-300 lenses, FL36 flash, Olympus remote, Giottos tripod and various Cokin filters. I always intended to replace the 70-300 with the 50-200 as it is weather sealed. I also have an Oly 2X teleconverter 'just in case' (I don't know what 'case' I'm waiting for but it was shiney and 'on offer' at the time).

Although I love photography, in its own right, my main hobby is overland travel, with my wife, in our Land Rover. I use my camera to try and capture memories as well as special images as we travel. As such my main 'focus' is landscapes and architecture. Although evening and night/star shots as well as streetlight scenes are also involved.

I chose Olympus because of my natural (and strange) aversion to following the mainstream crowd (Canikon) and the fact that I used a OM-2n for many years when I travelled as an Merchant Navy Engineer.

We have driven across the Sahara in Tunisia (where dust was a big issue). Next year (June) we are driving to the Arctic Circle in Norway and in 2015 we are hoping to drive to the Sahara again but, this time, in Morocco (overland-rovers.com)

During our last trip I started to develop an interest in video and I intend to complement my photos with a videolog in the future. I have now acquired a GoPro Hero 2 (and may get another) and a Kodak Playsport specifically for 'onboard' video and only want to carry one camera when on foot.

I am not a 'must have the latest' animal and my E520 would have served me for many years but because of the dust and desire for video I was considering a camera upgrade to the Olympus E5 (and the 50-200) However, despite being on the market for 2 years, they still remain over 1200 and the rumours surrounding its replacement don't fill me with confidence and it will probably come too late anyway.

As such I started to look around at a better way to spend my money.

Despite having a reasonably heavy investment in Oly lenses I started to compare the specs of the E5 against the Pentax K5ii. It was heavier, had lower resolution video, lower resolution sensor (debatable), poorer low light capability and was nearly twice the price!

I worked out that I could get a K5/K5ii and 2-3 lenses for the price of an E5. Taking into account the secondhand value of my current Oly kit (ebay here I come) I realised that I could jump ship and 'refresh' my entire setup for a figure which was not that far from my original predicted spend.

I would love to stay with Olympus but with the price of the E5 remaining stupidly high and with the competition seemingly leaping ahead i am finding it hard to stay 'loyal'.

So here is the cry for help:

I love my Oly lenses, for some strange reason I like being an Oly owner but with a June deadline and a limited (but reasonable) budget I am being sorely tempted away.

Do I need therapy or am I doing the right thing?

Please convince me why my 2000 should go to the big 'O' rather than Pentax.

I have posted a similar, but opposite, plea on the Pentax User forum so that I can get a semi-balanced view.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Ralph

Imageryone
30th December 2012, 11:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A15MgHHS_M8#t=29s

Look at some of these extreme tests, you won't see them for Pentax :)

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 12:05 AM
Imageryone thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately I don't haven't enough posts to add a link but just put PENTAX DUST AND WEATHER SEALING IN AFGHANISTAN into the YouTube search box:(

Cheers

David M
31st December 2012, 12:15 AM
Given you only have one sealed lens and you want to shoot video I'd take a serious look at the Pentax offerings.

timmypreston
31st December 2012, 12:50 AM
How much would you want for the 520 body?

Phill D
31st December 2012, 08:43 AM
Ralph interesting question and I'd be interested in the answers you get from both sides as I tried a K5 out at Focus on Imaging earlier in the year and was very impressed. In my view it's the camera spec Olympus should have been producing over the last few years. If they had I for one would have bought one. As they haven't though and with your considerable budget how about going for an OM-D E-M5 and add a 4/3 adaptor to use with your existing lenses. You'd even have money left over to get some more sealed Oly glass especially if you went second hand for the glass. You'd also save some weight on your travels going the OM-D route.

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 09:26 AM
Tim
I'm not sure that I'm selling yet and, if I do, the body would be bundled with, at least, the kit lenses to make it a viable buy.

Phill
Basically I prefer a 'proper' DSLR. Although thespec of the OMD is similar to the K5 but isn't weather sealed.

David
That's exactly what I have done and Olympus is not looking favourable at the moment.

I never thought that this would cause me so much angst. After all it's just a camera.

Phill D
31st December 2012, 09:51 AM
Ralph I thought the OM-D was weather sealed that's the main reason I suggested it. From the reviews they say it is?

Melaka
31st December 2012, 10:04 AM
The EM5 is dust and spash proof but, apart from the 12-50, not many of the zoom lenses currently available are.

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 10:11 AM
Phill
Looks like you're right so, as I loved my old OM2, it may be worth a 'fondle'.

In addition I shall check out how 4/3 lenses work with m4/3.

Cheers

OlyPaul
31st December 2012, 10:24 AM
Have you thought about the Pentax K-30 which is also weather resistant and about the same size and weight as the E-520.

When I went MTF I brought the K-30 with the 18-55mm and 50-200mm weather resistant lenses for 579 to replace my Olympus DSLR's then got 50 back of Pentax so it was a bargain at 529 and its a great camera.

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 10:46 AM
Mmmm. It's interesting how there hasn't been many people leaping in to defend the E-5.

Perhaps that says more about the camera, compared to the competition, than any words can.

Melaka
Good point about the other lenses. I want a fully dust/weather proof setup before my next trip, in June, and I doubt they will have released any new lenses by then.

I also notice that the minimum ISO is 200 and I prefer to stick to 100 whenever I can. In addition the maximum aperture is 3.5 and I like the 2.8 of my current lens and the Pentax DA* offerings.

Paul
I looked at the K-30 but preferred the feel of the K-5. How to you find the IQ of each of your Pentax lenses compared to the Zuiko offerings?

Zuiko
31st December 2012, 10:56 AM
Ralph, I can appreciate your concern about the relative high cost of a new E-5. The alternative would be a used body and I've seen them sell at around the £800 mark.

Whether I would advise the E-5 or the K-5 depends on the handling. I would urge you, if you haven't done so already, to handle both to see which feels right, has the most logical menues for your brain, the best button placement, the most intuitive controlls. Either camera will serve you well; although I know the E-5 is practically bomb proof I cannot speak for Pentax but their reputation syas they are solid and dependable.

The other point is to compare the weather sealed lens ranges to see if one is more suitable for your needs than the other.

The Micro Four Thirds E-M5 is dust and moisture sealed but I'm unsure if it is to the same standard as the E-5. There is only one native sealed zoom lens currently available from Olympus, the 12-50mm, but Panasonic have two, the 12-35mm and 35-100mm, both a constant f2.8. The E-M5 will focus your existing Four Thirds lenses, with an adapter, but very slowly and best suited to static subjects. I haven't used it for video, but my E-M5 is a brilliant performer in terms of handling (for me), function and IQ.

The big advantage of the Pentax K5 is that it is relatively cheap and a proven performer. There is also the option, at very little extra cost, of adding a K30 as a spare body. This could be an important consideration for the trips that you have planned and the K30 is also weather sealed. With two bodies, as well as the insurance against one of them failing, you have the option of minimizing lens changes in dusty conditions. This is particularly important with Pentax, which does not have such a good sensor cleaning system as Olympus.

I'm afraid I cannot make the decision for you but hopefully this will give you food for thought. Either way, let us know how you get on. :)

Chevvyf1
31st December 2012, 10:59 AM
To be honest, if you want a lightweight the E-5, is NOT 4 U :)

I think it is world accepted that ZUIKO glass is of the highest standard.

I personally find that the E-5 and Zuiko Glass is the best option for me :) come rain, shine & sand it works :) Hanging out of the Ffestiniog train windows, in the persissing rain up Welsh Mountains; Or Sandy Beaches of the Indian Ocean islands, catching "spray" shots amidst the salty atmosphere.

Finally, I see the E-5 as per the OM series - 20 years plus Kit :)

If you want evidence of the HIGH IQ the E-5 eeks out of the same glass I used with the E-1's look in my Gallery :) - sadly these are only jpeg versions but the .orf/.raw files are blinding in IQ

Greytop
31st December 2012, 11:26 AM
Ralph, I can understand your quandary, Pentax do make some lovely kit but right now my money would definitely go the way of the OM-D EM-5 and the the two excellent weather and dust sealed Lumix f/2.8 lenses (12-35 and 35-100). Small and much more compact (ideal travel companions) than either 4/3rds and certainly the larger Pentax DA* Lenses.

If you opted for Pentax and you wanted a weather and dust sealed lens combination you would have to opt for the DA* 16-50 f/2.8 and the DA* 60-250 f/4 as comparable optics to the 12-60 and 50-200. My experience with DA* Pentax zooms has been less than favourable, certainly the 16-50 cannot hold a candle to the Oly 12-60 (I've had two 16-50 and two 12-60s so I know from experience). The 16-50 is very soft wide open requiring at least f/5.6 or more to sharpen up the frame, they are very slow at focussing compared to the the 12-60 and 50-200 (this was with a K-7 body), de-centering and motor failure issues are quite common, my first example of the 16-50 went back due to de-centering. On the positive side the physical build is nice but the performance is disappointing to average for what is marketed as their highest grade shorter FL zoom. Pentax users may argue this point but really unless they have tried a 12-60 for an extended period take their comments with a pinch of salt.
The 60-250 is closer to the 50-200 in quality but still slightly shy in my experience.

To counter my experience with Pentax zooms (which don't match Olympus or the Panasonic m4/3rds high grade offerings) their primes are very nice. I had a few FA primes and the 35 Limited. However they are not weather sealed.
Body wise I have no complaints I liked my K-7 and K20D very nice to use and extremely well built, the K5 and K5 MK2 will be no different.
However having now gone mirror-less I do get the distinct feeling the future is not for bodies with 'flippy up' mirror mechanisms, perhaps another consideration may be Sony's weather sealed A77 and 16-50?

Not sure I have helped here or not :)

Edit: Another option may be the new Lumix GH3 body (sorry Oly) if you prefer something more akin to a D-SLR in handling.

Greytop
31st December 2012, 11:46 AM
The EM5 is dust and spash proof but, apart from the 12-50, not many of the zoom lenses currently available are.

Hi David, the 12-35 and 35-100 from Panasonic are excellent dust and splash proof options, constant f/2.8 too

Bikie John
31st December 2012, 11:59 AM
I will quite happily speak in favour of the E-5, but I don't have any experience of Pantax to compare it with.

It is indeed very robust, I like the handling and Oly's menu system seems to suit my brain. I have used it for rugby for something like 4 years without it complaining. The only area where I feel it falls down is that its high ISO performance is not so good by modern standards. What is acceptable depends on what you want to do with the photos - I find that for my purposes up to about 1600 it is fine, beyond that it starts to creak. I also don't get on with its image stabilisation, but other people find it works well for them.

Ciao ... John

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 12:48 PM
Thanks guys. Phew plenty of info and food for thought

John
I had already considered the 'Spare body' question and I would have kept my E520 as backup if I bought an E-5.
It has already done one desert trip and apart from a glitch with the popup flash latching shut and grittiness using the kit lenses (now replaced with the 12-60) it faired very well (as the 2500 pictures taken in 2 weeks can attest to :rolleyes:).

It's not so much the high cost of the E-5, it's the value for money. Whichever way you look at it, it is a 2 year old design and even secondhand it costs more than a brand new, latest spec, Pentax. Is that really a viable use of anyones money for a long term investment:confused: (rhetorical).

Chevvyfi
Lightweight is not really a key criteria as I have a nice 3 tonne Land Rover to carry my kit around in:D
The high IQ is without question it's more the other features that I question e.g. video, high ISO, etc.

Huw
Thanks for your input, both here and on the other forum. Having a direct comparison between the Pentax and Oly glass is extremely useful.
Although the m4/3 route doesn't 'float my boat' and wasn't an original consideration I thought I would check out the cost for your proposed system. The OMD is available with the Panasonic 12-35 as a kit at £1799 and the 35-100 is a further £949 which comes to £2755 (SRS Microsystems) which is a bit steep for me at the moment. I know I can use some of my 4/3 lenses, with an adaptor, but I understand that the AF is questionable like this.
I do agree with you 'mirrorless' comments but I'm not quite there yet. However I shall pop out the WEX (it's only 20 miles down the road) and have a 'fondle'.

Bikie John
I am happy with the IS on the E520 and I assume the E-5 system is the same. The high ISO performance is an issue with the 520 as well so I know what you mean. Whereas the Pentax seems to score very highly across the whole ISO range.

So where am I at the moment:

IMO the Pentax wins 'hands down' when it comes to the camera.
Olympus win 'hands down' when it comes to their zoom lenses.
The m4/3 route is worth exploring but is probably out of my budget and doesn't quite 'feel right' yet.

As Huw said on the Pentax forum; what I need is a 4/3-K mount adapter. Sadly I don't think thats going to happen.

Please keep the comments coming as there may be something I've overlooked.

Cheers

Ralph

David M
31st December 2012, 02:08 PM
I'd have defended the E-5 if you'd already got a bag full of sealed HG and SHG lenses. But as you don't and video is important to you Pentax may be the better option.

Cameras and lenses are just tools, buy the best tools for the job.

Melaka
31st December 2012, 02:58 PM
Hi David, the 12-35 and 35-100 from Panasonic are excellent dust and splash proof options, constant f/2.8 too

I was really thinking of Olympus kit. The fast Panasonics are quite expensive and somewhat specialised - I have the Oly 14-35 and 35-100. There isn't really the equivalent of the Oly HG lenses in MFT fitting. Even the 12-50 is a poor relation to the 12-60. It wins on its small size and macro ability but loses on focal length range and aperture.

For that reason I shall be hanging on the my E5 and the HG/SHG lenses for the foreseeable future even as I learn to love my EM5.

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 03:05 PM
I'm afraid Pentax is winning at the moment I have just been give this link:

www.pentaxphotogallery.com (http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/photos/gallery/query?camera=59&lens=2040)

Where you can select images by camera and lens combination. Some of these photos prove that I won't be disappointed with the Pentax lenses I intend to get.

As David M says Cameras are just tools and brand loyalty is only important if the brand stays loyal to your requirements. Unfortunately Olympus haven't and so it looks like there wil be a list of kit available in the for sale section soon.

Greytop
31st December 2012, 03:56 PM
Enjoy you Pentax gear Ralph, I'm sure it will work out fine :)

Hi David (Melaka) the Lumix 12-35 and 35-100 are pretty much the HG equivalent for m4/3rds, excellent build with image quality to match.
The fact they are from Panasonic rather than Olympus is neither here nor there from my point of view.
Actually that is one of the strong points of m4/3rds, the fact that many manufacturers are now participating in the format.
Both the 12-35 and especially the 35-100 work exteremly well with my OM-D E-M5 ;):D

peak4
31st December 2012, 06:14 PM
Enjoy you Pentax gear Ralph, I'm sure it will work out fine :)

Hi David (Melaka) the Lumix 12-35 and 35-100 are pretty much the HG equivalent for m4/3rds, excellent build with image quality to match.
The fact they are from Panasonic rather than Olympus is neither here nor there from my point of view.
Actually that is one of the strong points of m4/3rds, the fact that many manufacturers are now participating in the format.
Both the 12-35 and especially the 35-100 work exteremly well with my OM-D E-M5 ;):D

I must admit that until recently I did agree with you, but this thread on FourThirdsUser has me wondering.

http://fourthirds-user.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11288&highlight=panasonic+service

Unfortunately Gwyver's only posted a couple of times since that, so we may never know of the final outcome, unless Ian found out of course.

Melaka
31st December 2012, 07:11 PM
Hi David (Melaka) the Lumix 12-35 and 35-100 are pretty much the HG equivalent for m4/3rds, excellent build with image quality to match.
The fact they are from Panasonic rather than Olympus is neither here nor there from my point of view.
Actually that is one of the strong points of m4/3rds, the fact that many manufacturers are now participating in the format.
Both the 12-35 and especially the 35-100 work exteremly well with my OM-D E-M5 ;):D

Don't tempt me!

Pete Riley
31st December 2012, 08:26 PM
I have been a serious wildlife TOG for as long as I can remember. The E5 easily surpasses my capabilities. There is also the fact that Zuiko glass is rated as one of best in the world. That's why you should buy an E5

Chevvyf1
31st December 2012, 08:33 PM
I have been a serious wildlife TOG for as long as I can remember. The E5 easily surpasses my capabilities. There is also the fact that Zuiko glass is rated as one of best in the world. That's why you should buy an E5

*chr :D *chr :D *chr :D Yeah !

Greytop
31st December 2012, 08:35 PM
I must admit that until recently I did agree with you, but this thread on FourThirdsUser has me wondering.

http://fourthirds-user.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11288&highlight=panasonic+service

Unfortunately Gwyver's only posted a couple of times since that, so we may never know of the final outcome, unless Ian found out of course.

Well that thread doesn' t make great reading, I do hope Panasonic have pulled their socks up, credit also to Ian for trying to help out.
Perhaps luckily my Lumix lenses are performing flawlessly (fingers crossed) :)

David M
31st December 2012, 08:48 PM
No serious wildlife photographer uses anything but Canikon. :D

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 09:02 PM
No serious wildlife photographer uses anything but Canikon. :D

What about humorous wildlife photographers :D

Pete
Thanks for the comment. Do you shoot video as well as stills?

David M
31st December 2012, 09:15 PM
I shoot stills only. Between my gallery here and on 4/3 user there's quite a few wildlife photos taken with the OM system and the E-system. I used to shoot wildlife for editorial/stock when there was still money in it.

JohnI
31st December 2012, 09:39 PM
Hmmm . . . a question fraught with "opportunities".

Leaving aside the video aspect, because vidiot I ain't:

I learned a long time ago that any kit will be a compromise.

To date, I have not been able to find a better lens combination than the Oly 7-14mm, 12-60mm and 50-200mm with EC14. Note: I only recently acquired the 7-14 as a weathersealed upgrade to my original 9-18. For the little I've used it, it certainly lives up to its reputation and then some.

Though I would very much like to own an E-5, I'm using the E-30 and have been for some time (and saving, saving, saving for either an E-5 or Oly's rumored whateveritis). The E-30 performed superbly through 18 months of heat and dust in the Arabian Peninsula, and is doing just fine, thank you, in the muck and mire of Western Ireland. So much for a non-weathersealed body! (Note: I do 99% of my shooting outdoors - landscape, wildlife, weather).

Though I did look at the Pentax option very carefully, I decided not to go that route as the equivalent glass doesn't measure up to what I presently have. What it boiled down to was deciding that the advantages of the glass were greater than the sum of limitations of the body in the Olympus, and that the limitations of the glass were greater than the sum of the advantages of the body in the Pentax. It's a bit similar to "the lady or the tiger" question; of the two primary sensing components of the system - the glass and the sensor - which do you place more reliance upon for the end result? I am not aware of any manufacturer whose body/sensor and lens configurations possess equivalent excellence, by the way. Therein lies the inevitable compromise.

And E-5 aside, I'd feel comfortable with heading out anywhere with an E-30 (which is a far less expensive option than the E-5). My ideal would be an E-5 with an E-30 backup/alternate.

. . . just to stir the pot

John

Ralph Hardwick
31st December 2012, 09:55 PM
John
Thanks for that.
I'm pretty certain that both the Oly and Pentax options will outperform my ability and I agree with your concept of sensor & lens and the need to compromise.

I am considering sensor, glass, video capability, future longevity and cost/value. With regard to IQ can I accept the output from my final choice.

Looking at some of the personal galleries on the Pentax users site, using the camera and lenses I hope to get, the answer is yes.

If there was definitely going to be an E7 or even an E5ii then the choice would be different.

Zuiko
1st January 2013, 03:19 AM
Ralph, before you make a final decision make sure you handle both cameras if at all possible. Handling should be a major consideration but often gets pushed further down the list than it should do by features, specs and test reports.

Phill D
1st January 2013, 08:55 AM
John's last point is definitely the way to make your choice. I handled both the K5 & the OM-D at Focus within a few minutes of each other and they are both beautiful things. I'd say it's a very dificult choice to make and you need to take your time handling them. Interesting to see the OM-D got DPR camera of the year too.

Ralph Hardwick
1st January 2013, 11:45 AM
John/Phill
My nearest 'decent' dealer is WEX and, unfortunatelythey, don't have the E5 on display and won't open their only stock item unless I buy it! They have always been excellent in all other regards but don't want an opened box in stock to try and sell later.
There is a Jessops nearby but they don't have an E5 in stock.
I'm afraid it's a symptom of Olympus PR apathy and lack of customer interest in an 'old' camera that one isn't more available. As such I will have to go on reports and educated guesswork.
To be honest WEX is very Canikon focused and asking to look at a Pentax gets you a strange look. I bought my original E520 from there and the salesman kept trying to convince me to try the equivalent C or N model. I got the feeling that he thought I was bit odd not to consider them.
However the staff are very knowledgable (mostly) and helpful and I spent 15 minutes with a K5 the other day and they even gave me a free sd card to take some trial pics home with me.
I shall try an OMD but I don't feel that's the way I want to go yet. Minimum 200 ISO puts me off and the choice/cost of fast weather sealed lenses is still limited. I shall try and remain open minded till I handle one though.

In some ways Olympus themselves are what's putting me off the E5. If Pentax can bring out incremental changes, K5 - K5ii, I can't see why olympus couldn't have done the same. Fitting the OMD sensor into the E5 and calling it the E5a or something would have changed everything, shown commitment and (I feel sure) wouldn't have cost them a lot. Their lack of support for their existing customers despite ongoing requests from multiple sources doesn't sit well with me. They are a niche manufacturer that is innovative, produce excellent kit and.......then wait till the competition overtake them.
The m4/3 system is the way they want to go at the expense of the 4/3 system and many customers. That's fine, if that's their business model but the way they have treated the, IMHO, excellent 4/3 system is poor and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Saying that I already stated that I am not obsessed with constantly upgrading and having the latest this that or the other. However it is nice to think that I can buy a K5ii this year and a K5iii/K6 next year for close to the current price of a new E5 if I wanted to.
Hopefully the E7, or whatever, will leap them ahead of everyone and please all their existing customers when it eventually arrives. Maybe I will be annoyed at myself for jumping ship. But somehow I doubt it and in the time that we wait for that to happen I will have had several months of productive use out of my new kit.

There whinge over!!

I am not going to rush and I still keep swinging despite what I have written over the last few days.

There is a nice secondhand E5 and 50-200 in the for sale section and I am still considering this option although £1600 is a lot of money for 2nd hand compared to what new Pentax kit I can get for the same.

I have nearly six months to finalise my choice but its definitely swinging towards Pentax at the moment.

peak4
1st January 2013, 12:13 PM
Isn't there a Mersea Island meet coming up?
If you are near Norwich, it might not be too far for you to travel if you are on the south side.
You could always enquire if anyone is taking an E-5 with them and go for a play out in good like minded company.

David M
1st January 2013, 02:19 PM
Ralph's already handled the Pentax but John's point is very valid for anyone else reading this thread who are considering 2 different makers(or even different models from the same maker, a lot of people liked the E-1, I never really got on with it). The best tools are the ones you can pick up and use instinctively, allowing you to concentrate on your subject rather than getting distracted by the camera.

Chevvyf1
1st January 2013, 02:33 PM
Ralph, before you make a final decision make sure you handle both cameras if at all possible. Handling should be a major consideration but often gets pushed further down the list than it should do by features, specs and test reports.

John, YOU are sooo RIGHT here :)

I bought the E-5 from Park online :) I just KNEW I would LURVE IT because I had seen SteveB ? in Wales, images and they BLEW ME AWAY :) and a few other peoples MACRO shots - using the Zuiko 14-54; 50 Macro and 50-200 - I WAS IN LURVE with the E-5 *hthrob1 *hthrob1 *hthrob1 ... long before it arrived :)

However, Ralph :D it is a HEAVY lot of kit :) and I was moving up from my E-1's :cool:as they are such lightwerigh camera bodies :eek:

Ralph Hardwick
1st January 2013, 04:36 PM
Chevvyfi
According to the specs the E-5 is only 50g heavier than the K5, both of which are significantly heavier than my 520.

E-520 = 550
E-5 = 800
K5ii = 750

So which ever I go for I will feel a big difference.

I thoroughly agree that, in an ideal world, you would be able to handle and compare directly. Unfortunately, in this case I don't think that will be possible.

Greytop
1st January 2013, 05:06 PM
Ralph,

The E-5 is 892g including battery and memory card (800g without)
The K5 MK2 is 760g with battery and SD card (680g without)

You'll notice that the K5 is a more manageable body than the E-5
On the other hand lenses (DA* verses HG) will probably even out things a little.

Ralph Hardwick
1st January 2013, 05:10 PM
What's a few grammes between friends ;)

They're still both an lot heavier than my 520.

I take it that the DA* lenses are heavier than the HG?

Greytop
1st January 2013, 05:13 PM
I take it that the DA* lenses are heavier than the HG?

A little yes, I think 25g in favour of the 12-60 over the 16-50 ;)

Greytop
1st January 2013, 05:19 PM
Ralph, if and when you handle the OM-D, make sure you try it with the grip fitted.
To my mind it balances much better with either part or all the grip fitted when used with the larger m4/3rds optics.

My OM-D with the grip and 12-35 fitted
http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/E-M5_12-35.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/49102)

Ralph Hardwick
1st January 2013, 05:29 PM
Just checked

DA* 16-50 = 565
HG 12-60 = 575

DA* 60-250 =1040
HG 50-200 = 995

So it's swings and roundabouts.

The down side with the Pentax lenses is the 1.5 crop factor which gives a slightly shorter maximum focal length and the smaller aperture of the larger lens HG= 2.8, DA* = 4.

Ralph Hardwick
1st January 2013, 05:32 PM
Huw
I'm beginning to think you have shares in M4/3rds;)

Chevvyf1
1st January 2013, 05:38 PM
Chevvyfi
According to the specs the E-5 is only 50g heavier than the K5, both of which are significantly heavier than my 520.

E-520 = 550
E-5 = 800
K5ii = 750

So which ever I go for I will feel a big difference.

I thoroughly agree that, in an ideal world, you would be able to handle and compare directly. Unfortunately, in this case I don't think that will be possible.

Dont mess yourself about - order both online then you get 7 days with each to try it - retun the one you dont want :) SIMPLE !

OR order the E-5 and take it into your other make camera shop (when they have a stock item open) and compare :)

then BUY :)

Personally, I feel your much too indecisive to make a significant investment in a new camera just now- let alone lenses if its not Oly :)

:D Keep your cash in the bank :)

Greytop
1st January 2013, 05:42 PM
Huw
I'm beginning to think you have shares in M4/3rds;)

:D I wish...
I just prefer robust weather and dust resistant kit with less bulk that works ;)

My investigation shows the 16-50 at 600g link (http://www.pentax.co.uk/en/group/14/product/21650/body/specifications/Photo-Lenses.html) and the 12-60 at 575g link (http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/c/cameras_accessories/digital_slr_cameras_accessories/dslr_lenses_adapters/zuiko_digital_ed_12_60mm_12840_swd_1/index.pdf)
From what I recollect handling both that is pretty much as it felt (for a while I had both Olympus and Pentax systems).

Ralph Hardwick
1st January 2013, 07:28 PM
:D I wish...
I just prefer robust weather and dust resistant kit with less bulk that works ;)

My investigation shows the 16-50 at 600g link (http://www.pentax.co.uk/en/group/14/product/21650/body/specifications/Photo-Lenses.html) and the 12-60 at 575g link (http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/c/cameras_accessories/digital_slr_cameras_accessories/dslr_lenses_adapters/zuiko_digital_ed_12_60mm_12840_swd_1/index.pdf)
From what I recollect handling both that is pretty much as it felt (for a while I had both Olympus and Pentax systems).

The difference is n the 'hood' http://www.pentaximaging.com/camera-lenses/ (http://www.pentaximaging.com/camera-lenses/smc_PENTAX_DA_Star_16-50mm_F2.8_ED_AL_(IF)_SDM#!product-specs)

Chevvyfi

That's not a bad idea. I might just try that:D

Although I may seem indecisive it's because I don't want to feel I did the wrong thing afterward. If only Olympus would announce the E7, DSLR, with 24 Mp 4/3 sensor, Trupic XI, 1080p video at 120fps, for less than 1000 then I wouldn't have a problem:rolleyes:

2k is a big investment and although I don't plan to upgrade next year or the year after I'd like to think that my kit might still be worth something when I do.

DerekW
1st January 2013, 10:48 PM
Another factor could be the support structure around the different makes of cameras - with the Oly's there are a couple, perhaps more forums focussing on the brand and models, how does the other make stack up with forum support?

sponner
2nd January 2013, 06:19 AM
I asked the same question on the Pentax forum, I am sure the response there will be overwhelmingly in favour of Pentax.

I have an E5 and decided to stick for the time being, it is heavy but takes great images whne coupled with the 12-60 and 50-200, the build quality is awesome and it is really snappy in use, my 50-200 is the non-swd but still focuses almost instantly in anything but abysmal light.

Those 2 lenses and the e5 basically do everything I need for now so I decided to hold out for an e7 (just hope the gamble pays off).

The pentax kit is great but the lenses swung it for me in the end.

One of the deciding factors was worry over the reputed tendency to failure with some of the Pentax quality lenses.

I would hold out for a good value E5 and 50-200, they do crop up.

Ralph Hardwick
2nd January 2013, 10:43 AM
Once again thanks for all the comments.

I am going to hold off for a while to see if there is anymore 'flesh' added to the 'E-7' (or whatever it's finally called) rumours currently floating about. If they become more tangible then perhaps they will have an impact on the E-5 pricing.

Having thought long and hard about this my main reason for indecision is price.
The average 'non-grey' price for an E-5 has firmly stayed above 1200 for months (although I notice today that Amazon are offering 1156.

A Pentax K5ii is 750

And even :

A Nikon D600 is 1290
A Canon EOS 5D Mark II is 1249

Now I know I said I wasn't interested in Canikon, but both these cameras are full frame and claim varying degrees of weather sealing. I haven't looked at lens prices and probably won't bother. But it does start to put the current pricing of the E-5 into perspective:eek:

I also feel that whatever the 'E-7' turns out to be will have a direct bearing on the future 'value' of 4/3 equipment (including lenses) and I want to consider the system as a whole rather than just the camera.

The danger is that when the 'E-7' is finally announced there may be a 'flood' of 4/3 equipment onto the secondhand market and values may plummet. Meaning it becomes even more expensive to change systems.

David M
2nd January 2013, 01:46 PM
Whatever you buy, make sure you give yourself plenty of time to learn the equipment before your trip.

Ralph Hardwick
2nd January 2013, 02:08 PM
David
Thanks for the advice.
I will either be impulsive and get something in the next few weeks (despite what I said earlier:o) or I shall wait a month or so.
Whatever I do I shall have everything in place a good few weeks before we leave so that I can test everything out.

Zuiko
2nd January 2013, 02:26 PM
Once again thanks for all the comments.

I am going to hold off for a while to see if there is anymore 'flesh' added to the 'E-7' (or whatever it's finally called) rumours currently floating about. If they become more tangible then perhaps they will have an impact on the E-5 pricing.

Having thought long and hard about this my main reason for indecision is price.
The average 'non-grey' price for an E-5 has firmly stayed above 1200 for months (although I notice today that Amazon are offering 1156.

A Pentax K5ii is 750

And even :

A Nikon D600 is 1290
A Canon EOS 5D Mark II is 1249

Now I know I said I wasn't interested in Canikon, but both these cameras are full frame and claim varying degrees of weather sealing. I haven't looked at lens prices and probably won't bother. But it does start to put the current pricing of the E-5 into perspective:eek:

I also feel that whatever the 'E-7' turns out to be will have a direct bearing on the future 'value' of 4/3 equipment (including lenses) and I want to consider the system as a whole rather than just the camera.

The danger is that when the 'E-7' is finally announced there may be a 'flood' of 4/3 equipment onto the secondhand market and values may plummet. Meaning it becomes even more expensive to change systems.

Ralph, these are all considerations which you need to take into account. If you think that Full Frame could fulfill your needs don't reject Nikon or Canon just because they are Nikon and Canon! I don't like them either, but if they are the best tool for the job.......

However, a few words of caution. Firstly you would lose the crop factor magnification advantage when using long lenses, I don't know if that is important to you. Secondly, you will forever be cleaning the sensors or doing a lot of spotting in pp!

I feel for you, it's not an easy decision to make.

StephenL
2nd January 2013, 02:35 PM
Secondly, you will forever be cleaning the sensors or doing a lot of spotting in pp!

I feel for you, it's not an easy decision to make.

That is an important consideration. What's the point in having a large, fine resolution sensor if you then muddy the waters, so to speak, by having the sensor covered in muck, or smudged by bodged attempts at cleaning. I know, I've been there!

Ralph Hardwick
2nd January 2013, 02:44 PM
John

The Canon and Nikon references were only included to demonstrate just how 'out of sync' the E-5's pricing is. Their weather sealing is a relative term and the cost of their so-called weather sealed lenses makes considering these cameras prohibitive. I think I would need to go for a full blown PRO setup and the mortgage to go with it;)

I am certain that my end choice will be either:

a) an E-5 + 50-200 HG lens, and keep all me existing kit as backup where appropriate.

or

b) a Pentax K5 ii + DA 12-24, DA* 16-50, DA*60-250

With option b) I shall sell my existing Oly kit to recoup some of the costs.

at the moment I'm investigating the various video modes on each camera for AF and IS whilst recording.

David M
2nd January 2013, 03:06 PM
Don't forget a back-up Pentax body, preferably one that uses the same battery as your main body. Keep the back-up sealed in plastic, you don't need to find the sensor already covered in dust before you use the camera.

Greytop
2nd January 2013, 03:35 PM
Don't forget a back-up Pentax body, preferably one that uses the same battery as your main body. Keep the back-up sealed in plastic, you don't need to find the sensor already covered in dust before you use the camera.

Pentax use a similar Ultrasonic system to clean the sensor as Olympus and in my experience they both work equally well.

Edit: Just to add that I suspect Pentax may even licence the technology from Olympus as theirs (which is almost identical in principle) was implemented later with the K7 body circa 2009.
Prior to that they used to shake the sensor with their IBIS system (K20D and earlier).

Ralph Hardwick
2nd January 2013, 03:37 PM
If I went the Pentax route I would have considered a K-30 body as these are only 360 new. However it looks like they take a different battery to the K-5 which would be a PITA.
So I will probably look for a secondhand K-5 as a backup.

Ralph Hardwick
2nd January 2013, 08:50 PM
Although I live in Great Yarmouth, I work in Brentford during the week and SRS Microsystems is only 30 minutes away. I intend to have a drive down there tomorrow and have a play.

Hopefully they will have an Olympus E-5, OM-D and K 5ii available so that I can finally 'put to bed' my indecision with an bit of 'fondling'.

I wonder if I should leave my debit card behind?

Greytop
2nd January 2013, 09:19 PM
Although I live in Great Yarmouth, I work in Brentford during the week and SRS Microsystems is only 30 minutes away. I intend to have a drive down there tomorrow and have a play.

Hopefully they will have an Olympus E-5, OM-D and K 5ii available so that I can finally 'put to bed' my indecision with an bit of 'fondling'.

I wonder if I should leave my debit card behind?

Great plan Ralph, SRS are an excellent dealer, most of my gear both Pentax and Olympus (4/3rds & m4/3rds) came from SRS.
Regarding the card, perhaps a memory card or two ;)

peak4
2nd January 2013, 09:41 PM
I wonder if I should leave my debit card behind?

Yes, Take a credit card instead :D
You get more protection & Amazon points or air miles etc. depending on the card ;)

Also my own local dealer has a 50-200mm in stock for 400 at the moment.
Don't assume that it will be the SWD version just because of the picture. They use stock photos in the ads and I assume someone has picked the wrong one at that price.
It will most likely come with at least 6 months warranty as well
http://www.harrisoncameras.net/productdetail.kmod?Productid=3060 (http://www.harrisoncameras.net/productdetail.kmod?Productid=3060)

Ralph Hardwick
2nd January 2013, 10:10 PM
Bill

£400 is a good price but I suspect, as you do, that it's the non-SWD version.

peak4
2nd January 2013, 10:23 PM
It's little different optically with the exception of the shape of the diaphragm, and the hood seems to be smaller and more portable, though others might be able to confirm this.
I'm sure the newer one will focus faster, but I've only got the earlier one myself and never had the opportunity to compare them.

Ralph Hardwick
3rd January 2013, 01:07 PM
And so, the deed is done*yes

Although I intended to wait, once I handled the toys I knew that I wouldn't leave to shop empty handed;)

I visited SRS Microsystems and spent at least 30 minutes with Chris (the owner) who could not have been more helpful if he tried. It was so nice to visit a 'proper' camera shop. The windows are full of secondhand kit and there was a even a £5 bits and bobs box on the floor full of old film cameras and lenses. It felt like I'd entered a toy shop for grown-ups:D

Unfortunately he didn't have an E-5 as he only now orders them when a customer requests one and he hasn't sold one for months. However I was able to handle an E-3 with a 12-60 lens so at least I could get an idea of the size, weight and layout of the E-5 which is not that much different.

I wasn't keen on the lack of mode dial although I did find the viewfinder to be brighter than the Pentax.

For Huw's (Greytop) benefit I also tried the OM-D but it felt too small and I wasn't that taken by the EVF. It may be the future but I think I'll stay in the past a bit longer.

The Pentax felt good and significantly lighter even though it's meant to be only a few grams. It tried it with the DA* 16-50 lens and it felt well balanced and comfortable. I liked the viewfinder display, especially in manual mode and I found the menu system quite intuitive.
The lens focused quickly and was completely silent. I also tried the DA* 60-250 which also felt comfortable and well balanced.

Chris was a mine of information even giving rough secondhand values for my E-system kit.

So the upshot is; I am now the proud owner of a brand new Pentax K5iis and DA* 60-250 lens as well as an ex-demo DA* 16-50. I ended up buying both lenses so that I could claim back the VAT on purchases over £2k. As such I ended up with a few 'goodies' thrown in by Chris and £500 back from HMRC *clap

In the end it came down to these key points:

1. Questionable longer term support for 4/3 system by Olympus meant that any investment now may not be worth anything/much in future and the current camera was already 2 years behind the available technology (even within their own systems).

2. E-5 cost was unreasonably high compared to what else was on the market i.e. it was just not good value for money.

3. E-5 video capability was not as good as the pentax both in specification 720 vs 1080p but also viewing some of the examples on youtube it seemed to suffer from 'rolling shutter' effect far more than the Pentax.

4. Handling; I found the pentax to be just that bit more comfortable and I preferred the control layout.

5. Although the Zuiko glass is unquestionably superior I found many online examples, taken by amateurs and professionals alike, using the camera and lens combination I wanted which demonstrated excellent IQ. I read many reviews, both positive and not so positive, and the 'average' seemed to indicate that the DA* lenses will probably perform better than my ability.

I am sad to break my decades long (OM2n from 1980!) connection with Olympus but as some one on this or the other forum wrote; "a camera is just a tool so get the right tool for the job".

I shall be advertising my E-system stuff on here first as a thank you for all the assistance and information this forum has given me over the years in the hope that another forum member will benefit. I need to check what boxes I still have and shutter actuations etc. before I post.

Thanks for all your input into this thread and I hope it will help anyone else who finds themselves in the same predicament even if they come to a different conclusion.

StephenL
3rd January 2013, 01:12 PM
Congratulations on your new purchases. You made a balanced, well-reasoned selection, and I'm confident that the Pentax will serve you well. I am sorry Olympus couldn't meet all your criteria, but that's life. It's only a camera, after all!

Do let us know how you get on with it, and post some pictures. *chr

Ralph Hardwick
3rd January 2013, 01:22 PM
Stephen
Thanks for that. Whilst I still have my E-520 and 12-60 lens I shall try and do some direct, side by side comparison and post them back here.
I know the 520 is only 10Mp but it should show colour differences and IQ variations with the lenses.

Greytop
3rd January 2013, 01:29 PM
Nice to hear you got on well at SRS Ralph, Chris is a great guy, very helpful.
And congratulations on your Pentax gear, I'm sure you will be more than pleased with it.
As I've mentioned before I think as far as D-SLRs go the K7/5/5mk2 body (they're all the same from a handling angle) is my favourite camera body, a nice size and ergonomically great, to my mind it's the form the E-5 should have taken.

For the future is does sound like Pentax have an interesting DA* 16-85 zoom on the horizon, perhaps something to look forward too ;)

Ralph Hardwick
3rd January 2013, 01:35 PM
Huw
Thanks for that. Yes the 16-85 does sound interesting and it's rumoured to be f2.8 (at least at one end).

I shall keep an eye out for it and see if it hits the market in the next 6 months. I could always sell the 16-50 as they are still fetching reasonable prices 2nd hand and the one I have was reduced because it was ex-demo anyway.

I would want to see a few reviews before I jumped but it would be the perfect carry about focal range.

With regard to the E-5, I would have gone for one if they had 'refreshed' it as Pentax have just done with the K5. Keeping the same body but with the OM-D internals, an E-5ii, would have definitely stopped me looking elsewhere.

Zuiko
3rd January 2013, 03:32 PM
Well done, Ralph, you went about your selection in a reasoned and balanced way, based upon your own individual requirements and circumstances. I'm sure that your Pentax kit will serve you very well and I do hope you will post some pics here of that exciting trip you have planned. :)

Ralph Hardwick
3rd January 2013, 03:36 PM
John
Thanks for that.
I shall post pictures, video and a full trip report on my site www.overland-rovers.com (http://www.overland-rovers.com).
The previous trips and preparations are already documented there.
Cheers

Phill D
3rd January 2013, 10:18 PM
I can only echo what John said. Glad you are sorted and I'm not suprised by your final decision really. Definitely will look forward to the trip shots and video, maybe you could post a simple reminder on here when its available to view. All the best.