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View Full Version : Olympus, a shot in the foot?


David Morison
15th July 2012, 04:37 AM
1. First we have an amazing new sensor and processing engine, not before time, but this is fitted into an apparently revolutionary camera, the E-M5, that is seriously compromised in the cause of fashion, style and compactness.

2. Add an extremely fast AF system that cannot cope with fast moving subjects.

3. Despite a whole host of new lenses nothing matches the range of SHG FT lenses.

4. Existing FT lenses when used with the E-M5 don’t come near their capability with the E5 and no news on the horizon on whether this will ever be sorted.

5. An IS system which is the best available in EV terms but can cause IQ issues if not used in ideal circumstances, I’ve found that on the one lens I have that has in-lens IS this is more reliable than the E-M5 IS.

6. An introductory offer of a free battery grip that two months down the line I haven’t yet received despite enlisting the help of Olympus UK – apparently the handling company have run out.

7. A silly little battery that cannot cope with even an hour of intensive wildlife photography.

8. A complete dearth of additional batteries available to buy at an exorbitant price, I need at least four for a day’s shooting.

9. And finally an upgrade that has possible problems and which Olympus say we shouldn’t download (I already have) but haven’t yet withdrawn.

It is no wonder that some have migrated to canikon – if developments in the near future don’t answer some of these problems I might consider this too!

David

Phill D
15th July 2012, 05:38 AM
Blimey David that's a bit depressing. I hadn't heard of many of your issues, to be honest I hadn't gone looking I guess as I decided to wait rather than buy early. I thought people were migrating the other way as it was so good! little did I know. Hope Oly get these issues sorted out as I'm pretty sure I'll get one one day. Or at least I was sure until I read your post. Issues 2, 4, 5 and 7 will need to have been sorted before I jump or the price dropped considerably to allow me to keep my 4/3s gear as well.

benvendetta
15th July 2012, 05:49 AM
But what have canon and Nikon got that is remotely like the the OMD?

DekHog
15th July 2012, 05:59 AM
David, I do get a couple of your gripes, but some just don't make sense to me....

The AF system just isn't ever going to be able to do what something like an E-5 can do with tracking, but surely we all knew this anyway, no matter what huge improvements Olympus claimed pre-release?

The SHG lenses thing? They weren't there for m43 and were never promised when you bought the camera, plus we all know that FT lenses are too slow (and big) on m43 anyway, so it never took much in the way of due diligence to know this pre-purchase.

IBIS? What's wrong with it, I think it's pretty amazing?

The grip issue? - yep, really annoying, but I'm sure Olympus have been somewhat taken by surprise at the popularity of the camera and the sales figures.

Batteries? - annoying, but not a huge problem. Loads around on eBay/Amazon that work perfectly well and will save you a tidy sum as well.

Firmware? Yes, the Olympus firmware upgrade process totally sucks, and I've read of at least two people who have had their camera's bricked during the process.

David Morison
15th July 2012, 07:07 AM
But what have canon and Nikon got that is remotely like the the OMD?
Nothing, but perhaps that is the point. I borrowed from a friend a 7D plus a non IS 400mm f5.6 and could snap a bird in flight far easier than I could with my E5 with 300mm and the E-M5 wouldn't have stood a chance. Despite the increased portability of the E-M5 this is still a serious issue for me.

Originally Posted by DekHog
The AF system just isn't ever going to be able to do what something like an E-5 can do with tracking, but surely we all knew this anyway, no matter what huge improvements Olympus claimed pre-release?

I haven't yet used the CAF Tracking, but in SAF or CAF I can hardly ever get focus lock on a flying bird, less of a problem with the E5.

Originally Posted by DekHog
The SHG lenses thing? They weren't there for m43 and were never promised when you bought the camera, plus we all know that FT lenses are too slow (and big) on m43 anyway, so it never took much in the way of due diligence to know this pre-purchase.

I was prepared for slower AF, although in many cases it is much slower than I was led to believe from reports. For many subjects this isn't a problem but with the 50-200mm SWD/EC14 combo on any subject it rarely even achieves focus lock and then the focus is usually off.

Originally Posted by DekHog
IBIS? What's wrong with it, I think it's pretty amazing?

But a lot has been said on this forum about the sensor movement causing some loss of IQ and I find this does happen occasionally with longer focal lengths - I don't get any problems with in-lens IS.

Originally Posted by DekHog
Batteries? - annoying, but not a huge problem. Loads around on eBay/Amazon that work perfectly well and will save you tidy sum as well.

It is a huge problem when you are trying to catch interesting animal behaviour and the battery fails half way through. Usually the action is over by the time the battery is replaced.



After saying all this I do like the camera, it has some amazing and useful features and I love the light weight and portability. Also I think it works great for landscapes, architecture and macro etc. However for most of what I need it could have been so much better. With wildlife you rarely get a chance to examine the recorded image and take another one if it is poor. Perhaps with all the hype and reports I was expecting too much, so it's probably all my fault, but it doesn't change the facts as I see them.

David

Ross the fiddler
15th July 2012, 07:25 AM
David, I do get a couple of your gripes, but some just don't make sense to me....

The AF system just isn't ever going to be able to do what something like an E-5 can do with tracking, but surely we all knew this anyway, no matter what huge improvements Olympus claimed pre-release?

The SHG lenses thing? They weren't there for m43 and were never promised when you bought the camera, plus we all know that FT lenses are too slow (and big) on m43 anyway, so it never took much in the way of due diligence to know this pre-purchase.

IBIS? What's wrong with it, I think it's pretty amazing?

The grip issue? - yep, really annoying, but I'm sure Olympus have been somewhat taken by surprise at the popularity of the camera and the sales figures.

Batteries? - annoying, but not a huge problem. Loads around on eBay/Amazon that work perfectly well and will save you tidy sum as well.
Firmware? Yes, the Olympus firmware upgrade process totally sucks, and I've read of at least two people who have had their camera's bricked during the process.

I decided to deal with the grip issue myself, as seen here (The grip issue? - yep, really annoying, but I'm sure Olympus have been somewhat taken by surprise at the popularity of the camera and the sales figures.), which allows access to the camera battery, which seems to last reasonably well for it's size, with several shots still possible after the red battery warning flashes, but the spares are not, unfortunately, Olympus.

Ulfric M Douglas
15th July 2012, 10:46 AM
Let me say my first impulse was to agree with your thread title ... then I began to read your list and found myself adding a lot of qualifications.
I'd have liked to see Olympus introduce their multiple innovations piecemeal into a range of new bodies.
Sensor first, then electromagnetic floating 5-axis stabilisation, then double sample rate AF & EVF.

2. Add an extremely fast AF system that cannot cope with fast moving subjects.
Most of the AF speed was achieved with three previous bodies and a few new lenses. The e-M5 improves on them hardly at all ... with possibly finally achieving some C-AF success in m4/3rds. The opposite of what you write, kinda.

3. Despite a whole host of new lenses nothing matches the range of SHG FT lenses.
Nothing in the 4/3rds lineup matches the mZ45mm, 17mm, Lumix20mm, so that goes both ways.

4. Existing FT lenses when used with the E-M5 don’t come near their capability with the E5 and no news on the horizon on whether this will ever be sorted.
Existing HG & SHG lenses can resolve more detail on static subjects when used with the e-M5. Proven in some decent photo tests I've seen.
Sure AF is crippled. So there's plusses and minusses.

5. An IS system which is the best available in EV terms but can cause IQ issues if not used in ideal circumstances, I’ve found that on the one lens I have that has in-lens IS this is more reliable than the E-M5 IS.
Also the e-M5 failures which I've seen reported are mostly failures in the new IBIS which kill the camera. Two deadly issues so far. The sleep/nowake up with Lumix lenses might be realated to IBIS too, who knows.

7. A silly little battery that cannot cope with even an hour of intensive wildlife photography.
Batteries should have been standard Pen batteries! Absolutely!

It is no wonder that some have migrated to canikon
The e-M5 has caused huge migration TO Olympus, not the other way around!
Its still happening as word gets out.

StephenL
15th July 2012, 02:54 PM
There's a simple answer if you don't like something. ;)

Greytop
15th July 2012, 04:13 PM
Sorry to hear you're not getting on with the E-M5 David :(

I do agree with some of your points, for example focus tracking is not as good as the E-5 and yes the battery is likely to need doubling up with the grip (which luckily I have) for intensive shooting.
Having said that there are many non OEM batteries available at very reasonable cost, I have invested in four together with a dual charger and all for the price of one of the 'nearly' non existent OEM version.

With respect to glass quality I would contend that the new Lumix 12-35 f/2.8 is candidate for comparison with at least HG and probably SHG glass. More so if the 35-100 is as good as the 12-35.
The Lumix 25 is stonking lens too, not to mention the Olympus 45, 75 and probably to a lesser extent the 12. I expect the 60 macro will be equally as good.

My first E-M5 did have a problem with the IBIS but now I'm very happy with the performance. In my opinion it is quite exceptional.

Lastly all the indicators I have seen suggest that many more are migrating to Olympus from larger D-SLR set-ups rather than the other way around.
I suspect this would also be confirmed by the E-M5 sales figures, the frustrating shortages of grips and batteries are other indicators.

Perhaps it's fair to say the E-M5 may not suit all but as an all round high quality compact solution it is appears to be suiting a great many more than it's not.
I'm very happy with mine.

Melaka
15th July 2012, 06:17 PM
I love posts like this! I've not been tempted to move to MFT and see no reason to do so for the sort of photography I enjoy. The plus side of the D5 is that some forum members sold off their E5s at affordable prices and I now have two. Used in conjunction with the Pro and TopPro lenses they're fantastic!

StephenL
15th July 2012, 06:25 PM
I love posts like this! I've not been tempted to move to MFT and see no reason to do so for the sort of photography I enjoy. The plus side of the D5 is that some forum members sold off their E5s at affordable prices and I now have two. Used in conjunction with the Pro and TopPro lenses they're fantastic!

That's fine. Horses for courses. :)

Zuiko
15th July 2012, 10:43 PM
There's a simple answer if you don't like something. ;)

Yes, and I can think of at least one person who would be interested in a keenly priced used E-M5! ;)

But, we don't want to lose David! :(

Hope you manage to resolve at least some of these issues, David.

Paul19
16th July 2012, 03:07 AM
That's fine. Horses for courses. :)

Yes indeed. It seems that the E-M5 is the wrong camera for David's style of photography; that's OK. I do remember however, reading (in many different places) that there is no perfect camera, so a good photographer works with and around their camera. For me looking at the pros & cons of the E-M5, the glass is 9/10 full.

StephenL
16th July 2012, 06:39 AM
If there was a perfect camera, no-one would buy anything else!

drmarkf
17th July 2012, 01:41 PM
Interesting :D

I've found the E-M5's continuous tracking autofocus reasonably useful for following people in some types of street photography, but I agree it can't keep up with motorsports and the like.

I've found "CA with single-spot autofocus" much more useful for fast subjects. I had both my E-M5 + Panny 100-300, and D300 + 70-200 f2.8 Nikkor, at different times during the British GP last weekend: in summary, I shan't be selling the latter combination yet.
However, I shall be using it less often because the Oly-Panny combination in CA-single-spot mode is better than any m4/3 combination I've used in this way before: it also doesn't give me lumbago and means I've also got room for Silverstone-spec full waterproofs in my LowePro Slingshot :)

For example, I got several really nice sharp images of the Red Arrows Synchro Pair crossing (700mph closing speed) by follow-focussing one jet and tripping the shutter when the second one entered the frame (I'll post a link when I get back to a PC that isn't blocked from Flickr...). There's no way that would ever have worked on my earlier m4/3 cameras.

Loup Garou
17th July 2012, 02:22 PM
While I agree that the OM-D's focus tracking of fast moving objects is less versatile than standard DSLR's, it is still quite good. In just about every other photographic feature it comes across as good a camera as any other in the market in that price range and often more than comparable to more expensive brands.

I think that I can safely say that most users spend comparitively little time photographing motor racing and so the OM-D overall is an excellent camera and excellent value. I certainly would not want to change for anything else.

StephenL
17th July 2012, 02:27 PM
and so the OM-D overall is an excellent camera and excellent value. I certainly would not want to change for anything else.

Ditto! *chr

jdal
17th July 2012, 02:52 PM
... so the OM-D overall is an excellent camera and excellent value. I certainly would not want to change for anything else.
Ditto! *chr

And +1 for me. It's perfect for mountaineering/ambling around the County/ad hoc social events/travelling etc. That combination of quality and portability what I was looking for 4/3 to deliver.

If shooting fast moving subjects or low light stuff were of prime importance, I'd not have bought it - indeed I wouldn't have bought into 4/3 - I was toying with Nikon when I got the E300.

And as others have implied I hardly think Oly have shot themselves in the foot with this camera. A very strange thread title.:confused:

I hope you get a resolution to your issues David, in particular it would be nice if Oly could fix the focus issues which seem to be the main stumbling blocks to your wildlife shooting, it'd be a shame to lose you from the forum.

StephenL
17th July 2012, 02:56 PM
it'd be a shame to lose you from the forum.

Indeed. I love your nature shots, David.

Greytop
17th July 2012, 04:24 PM
Indeed. I love your nature shots, David.

Agree 100% we wouldn't want to lose the amazing shots you post here David.

Cathrine Stephansen
17th July 2012, 06:01 PM
Agree 100% we wouldn't want to lose the amazing shots you post here David.

Yes, but with the way Olympus are going, he won't be able to get those type of shots on their future cameras. They are shot on a system that Olympus don't support any more.

I am very grateful to you, David for posting this! You've just saved me a lot of money. We do much the same type of photography - fast moving wildlife and fast-moving macros, the last thing we need is autofocus slowing down or becoming unreliable. And the E5 easily does a day on one-two batteries. I certainly don't want to spend any money on the OM-D with that type of review. I was thinking of getting one for the Greenland trip, but won't now!

Yes - people might be moving to Oly for the OM-D, they probably shoot street photography, think visual design means more than ergonomy and drink café lattes too, so that doesn't mean anything to me. I don't know any other serious wildlife/nature photographers here in Norway who use Olympus, and I am beginning to see why.

As someone said further up - there are different cameras for different types of photography. So David, it seems that Olympus don't want us as customers. That's a pity, because I usually spend a lot of money on photo-gear... :D But I guess they already had my money and are looking for different clients.

What a pity, read the reviews that the E5 got!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=734744&is=REG&si=rev#costumerReview

And this is a camera that is the last in the line?? It also won the TIPA Award for best camera in the enthusiast class in 2011. Oly didn't even market that... It'd like they want to get rid of the E-system as quickly as possible..

To have a system in the future that receives support from the manufacturer, I would have to either go to micro Four thirds or to Canon, Nikon or Pentax for my main gear. Very, very easy choice by the looks of it.

Greytop
17th July 2012, 06:23 PM
Cathrine, I think you may be just jumping the gun a little *yes
I would be very surprised if Olympus didn't introduce a larger camera body (along E-5 lines) to support of 4/3rds glass using E-M5 technology.
For you, David and many others this will be a fantastic tool.
Not really for me I must admit because I have always tended towards smaller kit rather than larger but horses for courses as they say.

Edit: Just add that also I think it would be unfair to say the E-M5 is totally unsuitable for wildlife shots. Even though I haven't gone out of my way to try and get them I have managed to take a few that I'm quite pleased with, nothing stand out mind you.
Here's one of a Red Kite in flight which I had very little time to capture. It's a pretty severe crop but still I'm quite happy with the result.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/Red_Kite2.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/48654)

Here's another, OK not exactly in flight but...

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/P5290197.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/47560)

jdal
17th July 2012, 07:10 PM
Out of interest, who said that Oly weren't going to continue 4/3 and bring out a new 4/3 camera? Just because they have brought out a well-received m4/3 model doesn't mean abandonment of 4/3.

Re the E-M5 I don't shoot street photography, I don't think visual design means more than ergonomy and I don't drink café lattes ;). I do however spend a lot of time with my camera outdoors, walking & climbing often in inclement weather, and the E-M5 easily beats the E-5 in that scenario *yes. My tripod's nigh on a kilo lighter for starters.

If I was primarily birding I'd look for something good in low light and something with good focus tracking. If I read the reviews/wildlife websites correctly I don't think that scenario would favour Oly, but as many have demonstrated on this site it doesn't rule out Oly either.

Who's_E
17th July 2012, 07:35 PM
Horses for courses. :)

Exactly! It entirely depends on what you want from a camera and, like anything in life, it is a compromise.

My £0.02 - I have three cameras: Oly Tough, G3 and E3.

The tough comes to the beach, park and anywhere else it gets dropped, wet, chewed and generally abused. It fits in my pocket but the quality is small-sensor poor.

I use the G3 for it's portability and ability to take family snaps but with full manual control and quality for when I get some time to take photos. My compromise is that I limit my lenses to entry-level 43/m43 because they are light and I don't want to invest heavily in the system.

If I want to go and take photos of birds and other moving things, out come the E3 and SWD lenses/SHG lenses. Here I trade the portability and light weight for focus speed, control and well balanced handling with the lenses.

Horses for courses, absolutely. I could go on for many more lines about the pros and cons of each system. I am happy - I know the limitations and they apply across the market.

I am compromised but replete with my mix portability, quality and general camera-ness.

Nick

brianvickers
17th July 2012, 08:59 PM
I have moved from a Canon 50D to the E-M5 and find the Olympus out-performs the Canon in every respect except continuous focus on moving objects. But the Canon was a bit hit and miss in this respect too but I think it had a better yield than the Olympus. I pre-focus for best results. This is not a solution if action photography is your primary interest. If that had been my interest I would buy a Canon 7D, I don't have experience of the E5 having said that or a Nikon alternative. I don't think the E-M5 fits the bill for David - hopefully the next OM-D will. Its a shame the hype at pre-release was not tempered with quality information in this respect.

Cathrine Stephansen
17th July 2012, 09:29 PM
Cathrine, I think you may be just jumping the gun a little *yes
I would be very surprised if Olympus didn't introduce a larger camera body (along E-5 lines) to support of 4/3rds glass using E-M5 technology.
For you, David and many others this will be a fantastic tool.


Huw, the sparrow is really nice and sharp, at which distance was it taken and with which lens? The question is for me performance with existing 4/3 lenses, not performance on micro 4/3 lenses. The micro 4/3 lenses have some nice primes in the wide angle range, and as discussed in other threads, a 300 2.8 would have to be big, so they probably won't make one.

Different cameras for different things, yes. What I'm reading about the OM-D does not convince me that it is for me and my style of photography YET, maybe some later version. I don't photograph in streets, I hate cities, and want to get out as quickly as possible :D. Yes, weight matters in the field, but not at the cost of function and quality. And quality is a sum of all the functions that matter to you. High image quality without fast focusing doesn't help me much. To me retro design is totally unimportant, rediculous even, and art filters are (again to me) a joke. You can do the same in post processing. Weather proofing and a build of all lenses to match the "tank" build of the E5 and OMD is an absolute necessity, so I'll wait until the lenses match the build of the OMD before considering the micro Four thirds as a system. I do have two plastic lenses for E-PL3, they are not built as well as I need for fieldwork.

I know I'm being bitchy when writing this, but I am so frustrated with the money I've spent and that they are throwing away such a brilliant system that is the E-system 4/3.

Yes, I HOPE you are right and that they will come with a new body for the DSLR system. If they do, and I see the specs are a significant upgrade relative to the already superb E5 (better ISO abilities, faster C-autofocus and more reliable as well as more pixels) I promise to buy one, almost hang the cost. BUT: I have talked to Olympus in Norway, and they were definite that there will be no more E system bodies, it was the OMD that would be the future. Notice also the total lack of marketing of the E5, they don't even want you to buy the E-system. Even in 2011 when the camera won a TIPA award, they don't market it.

If I have to get micro four thirds lenses to get decent shots of birds in flight, running dogs etc. with a micro four thirds camera, I'm looking at switching everything anyway, as I don't necessarily want two systems. Faced with a total change of gear I might as well buy into top end Nikon or Canon instead, these I KNOW will give the results I want, I see plenty of great results every day, splendid ISO capabilities and high resolution, but sadly very large lenses :eek:. If I want light-weight and nicely priced, Pentax have the really good K5, although the lenses don't match 4/3 for quality. Maybe if Oly make a 300mm 2.8 micro four thirds I would consider, but there is no point in going for f/4 for the light conditions we get here. And I'd still have to sell everything to finance a new set of lenses, and as hardly anyone has Olympus in Norway, who would buy them?

Yes, I'm angry. Maybe I'm too negative. I sincerely hope the guy at Olympus Norway was wrong!

Maybe I'll start collecting emails... Stamps don't have a future either, do they :D??

Cathrine Stephansen
17th July 2012, 09:36 PM
Exactly! It entirely depends on what you want from a camera and, like anything in life, it is a compromise.

My £0.02 - I have three cameras: Oly Tough, G3 and E3.

The tough comes to the beach, park and anywhere else it gets dropped, wet, chewed and generally abused. It fits in my pocket but the quality is small-sensor poor.

I use the G3 for it's portability and ability to take family snaps but with full manual control and quality for when I get some time to take photos. My compromise is that I limit my lenses to entry-level 43/m43 because they are light and I don't want to invest heavily in the system.

If I want to go and take photos of birds and other moving things, out come the E3 and SWD lenses/SHG lenses. Here I trade the portability and light weight for focus speed, control and well balanced handling with the lenses.

Horses for courses, absolutely. I could go on for many more lines about the pros and cons of each system. I am happy - I know the limitations and they apply across the market.

I am compromised but replete with my mix portability, quality and general camera-ness.

Nick

I couldn't agree more, and for the moving things we want them to keep the E system alive!

Greytop
17th July 2012, 09:57 PM
Hello Cathrine,

Angry...nah I couldn't tell ;)
That Sparrow (in my post above) was taken with the Panasonic 100-300 at distance of around 8 or 9 metres (bit of a guess).

Here are a couple taken with my now departed 50-200, EC-14 together with the E-M5

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/P5170479.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46751)

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/P5170483.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46753)

David M
17th July 2012, 10:23 PM
If you're a pro, buy the most suitable tools to do the job. Otherwise buy whatever appeals to you.

As someone who spent a lot of time shooting motor sports professionally in the early 80's I learnt to focus manually and still do for almost all my wildlife photography.

Spy
17th July 2012, 10:39 PM
Canon are announcing their first mirrorless camera next week. It will be interesting to see what specs they claim for it....and the styling, they may go down the retro look. No idea on price or launch date yet but I suspect they will have been looking closely at the success of the M5 over recent weeks.

David M
17th July 2012, 10:50 PM
Hopefully the Canon will accept legacy glass, otherwise you"re forced to use Canon lenses.

Cathrine Stephansen
17th July 2012, 11:20 PM
Hello Cathrine,

Angry...nah I couldn't tell ;)
That Sparrow (in my post above) was taken with the Panasonic 100-300 at distance of around 8 or 9 metres (bit of a guess).

Here are a couple taken with my now departed 50-200, EC-14 together with the E-M5



Now, these are taken with a combination of lenses that interest me! :D

I guess the best would be to get hold of someone who has the OMD and try it out on my lenses and my photographic habits. Or I could call Oly and ask if they would lend me one to try. In a couple of days I'll be getting the adaptor, so I will be trying out the E-PL3 with a few 4/3 lenses. Possibly just some slow work (as I keep getting my fingers on the wrong buttons :D) but it will be quite fun to see it on the 300 2.8! Just for fun, but it would also give me an idea of what the E-PL3 could do with better lenses.

Spy
18th July 2012, 08:08 AM
Hopefully the Canon will accept legacy glass, otherwise you"re forced to use Canon lenses.

The rumours are saying it may have a new mount to accept smaller lenses but will also come with an adaptor for existing lenses.

Will have to wait until the announcement on Monday to see exactly what it will be and if they will be going after the high end OMD CSC market

David Morison
18th July 2012, 01:29 PM
Well, this thread certainly drummed a few replies! Just to re-iterate I did say I liked the camera and despite it's restrictive physical size dictating less buttons compared with the E5 I do find it excellent for landscape, architectural and street photography so I won't be selling it. As to the AF and IS performance, I could well publish a few comparison images I have to compare with the E5, but to be honest the tests weren't very scientific and anyhow I would rather be out taking photographs. On the lens issue I can't find any info on Olympus website that any Oly MFT lenses of note are weatherproof, although I understand that some Lumix ones may be, but it's not Panasonic that this thread was about. So where are the Olympus MFT lenses that can match the FT 300mm f2.8 or even the 50-200mm SWD? The Olympus MFT telephotos in this region tend to be rather slow, (Unsuitable for any Teleconverters IF they were available) and non-weatherproof if the Olympus website is to be believed. So as I have said, I think this is an amazing little camera, but it could have been so much better and to think of the latest high tech. creation from Olympus as having restricted use and should only be purchased for certain types of photography is a rather strange approach.

So for now my set-up will be:

a. Walking the dog - E-M5 plus Leica 14-150mm or if there is a likelihood of wildlife with the 75-300mm.

b. Landscapes etc. - E-M5 plus Leica 14-150mm or ED 7-14mm

c. Wildlife macro - E-M5 plus 14-150mm plus Opteka HD macro or EX 25

d. Walk-about birding - E5 plus 50-200mm plus EC14

e. Serous birding from a hide or tripod - E5 plus 300mm f2.8 plus EC14.

Finally, how did Canon mirrorless developments muscle-in on my thread? I only mentioned the 7D!

Regards

David

StephenL
18th July 2012, 02:54 PM
I perfectly agree with you David - there is a dearth of long lenses for this format - yet. But remember it is an evolving format, still quite young, and Olympus in particular cannot afford to develop everything at once.

Hopefully in the future there will be a better availability of longer, and weather resistant, lenses.

But for now, for me at least, the E-M5 is just about as perfect as I want, even the battery life is good enough for me.

Spy
18th July 2012, 03:05 PM
The Panasonic G5 was announced this morning. It will have an RRP of £599 and it seems to have been brought up to the spec of the GH2 leaving the pending GH3 to introduce any new features or tech.

There is an interesting hands-on comparison between the new G5 and the OMD here, including image samples and side-by-side images of the bodies:

ePhotozine: Lumix G5 vs OMD-E-M5 (http://www.ephotozine.com/article/panasonic-lumix-g5-vs-olympus-om-d-e-m5-review-19716)

CJJE
18th July 2012, 06:02 PM
The Panasonic G5 was announced this morning. It will have an RRP of £599 and it seems to have been brought up to the spec of the GH2 leaving the pending GH3 to introduce any new features or tech.

There is an interesting hands-on comparison between the new G5 and the OMD here, including image samples and side-by-side images of the bodies:

ePhotozine: Lumix G5 vs OMD-E-M5 (http://www.ephotozine.com/article/panasonic-lumix-g5-vs-olympus-om-d-e-m5-review-19716)

Surprisingly it doesn't seem to be sealed like the E-M5. (Surprising because the new Lumix 12-35mm f2.8 lens is, and the expectation was that Panasonic were intending it to be used on the new Panasonic body.) Perhaps that will now be the next GHx rather than the G5?

Spy
18th July 2012, 06:30 PM
Surprisingly it doesn't seem to be sealed like the E-M5. (Surprising because the new Lumix 12-35mm f2.8 lens is, and the expectation was that Panasonic were intending it to be used on the new Panasonic body.) Perhaps that will now be the next GHx rather than the G5?

Yes, I suspect the new GHx will have any new features in order to keep it as the premium G series body.

The G5 is not bad if it matches the GH2 features and performance in the real world as it will be a little cheaper and a smaller body

Loup Garou
19th July 2012, 11:30 AM
The G5 sounds like a nice little camera but even if the performances are comparable (which is not yet certain), there are a couple of reasons why I would choose the OM-D over the G5 despite the significant price difference.

The most obvious one is styling; apart from its smaller size, the G5 looks like "any other camera". No soul. The OM-D not only has the retro look that gives it a unique character, but it resembles the OM series SLRs of the past, probably the best looking cameras of their day.

The next is pedigree. Panasonic are a great manufacturing company but it does not have quite the same tradition in still cameras as Olympus do.

brianvickers
19th July 2012, 11:48 AM
If Panasonic performance equals that of Olympus then styling is the USP for Olympus and it comes at a premium.
Similarly in cycling there are many bike frames of comparable spec - but the italian manufacturers can still command a premium even though most are made in China alongside cheaper makes.
But now that Olympus is using Sony sensors and has a tie up with them I think it likely that Olympus will keep ahead performance wise. it will be interesting to see what Canon comes up with next week. I wonder if there will be a DX mark review....

Loup Garou
19th July 2012, 12:43 PM
But now that Olympus is using Sony sensors and has a tie up with them I think it likely that Olympus will keep ahead performance wise.

Interesting the you mentioned Sony because it reminded me of something that happened today during a large family/relatives gathering to celeberate my Father-in-Law's 90th birthday.

One of the guests was going around with a Sony Alpha SLT-A77, one of the only two cameras with interchangeable lenses in the relatives' group - the other being my OM-D of course. My OM-D got a lot of curious glances and questions but hardly anyone bothered about the SLT, at least equally good in performance. It proves that it is not just an ego thing (I admit that ego is there as well ;) ) but character and styling do matter. :)

CJJE
19th July 2012, 01:36 PM
The G5 sounds like a nice little camera but even if the performances are comparable (which is not yet certain), there are a couple of reasons why I would choose the OM-D over the G5 despite the significant price difference.

The most obvious one is styling; apart from its smaller size, the G5 looks like "any other camera". No soul. The OM-D not only has the retro look that gives it a unique character, but it resembles the OM series SLRs of the past, probably the best looking cameras of their day.

The next is pedigree. Panasonic are a great manufacturing company but it does not have quite the same tradition in still cameras as Olympus do.

I fully agree with the styling USP of the E-M5. That was a major reason I switched to Olympus from the Lumix G bodies. (I loved the concept of the digital Olympus Pen cameras, but miss a viewfinder too much to be able to cope with its LCD screen. And adding the EVF stops you using a flashgun.)

But it would seem that Olympus are concentrating on fast prime lenses while Panasonic produce the fast zooms (like my new 12-35 f2.8). That works for me as I get a stabilised lens that will also work on my GF2, and the price includes a lens hood and lens pouch.

Wally
19th July 2012, 03:40 PM
A wee bit off topic given the latest input/posts, but still along the lines of the header...

Having just received my µ4/3 40-150, I’m sorry to say that first impressions straight out of the box were ‘cheap and nasty. A bit of metal [17mm 2.8] here and there with a lens hood and soft pouch certainly wouldn’t go amiss. If Panasonic can supply similar goods at a similar price point then why on earth are Olympus not following suite? Add on [purchase as extra’s] the extra supplied items and it makes Olympus prices appear OTT. I’m thinking that this small detail might, in the long-term, prove to be a cut back too much.

jdal
19th July 2012, 03:51 PM
......snip..
Add on [purchase as extra’s] the extra supplied items and it makes Olympus prices appear OTT. I’m thinking that this small detail might, in the long-term, prove to be a cut back too much.

I agree, Oly are being ridiculously parsimonious with this kit and the add-ons are a stupid price. Here's a couple of examples:

45mm Lens hood £8.19 from Hong Kong (incl shipping), Oly £30 incl shipping

Aftermarket BLN-1 batteries about £10, Oly's yet-to-be-proved-better versions about £70. I can't tell the difference other than the Oly charger won't charge the aftermarket ones.

AC power adapter £100??? :eek::eek:

Very weird if you ask me.

Greytop
19th July 2012, 04:02 PM
I also think that the lack of pouch and hood with Oly m4/3rd lenses is marketing miscalculation on their part. I'll leave it at that ;)

Cathrine Stephansen
19th July 2012, 04:14 PM
The most obvious one is styling; apart from its smaller size, the G5 looks like "any other camera". No soul. The OM-D not only has the retro look that gives it a unique character, but it resembles the OM series SLRs of the past, probably the best looking cameras of their day.

The next is pedigree. Panasonic are a great manufacturing company but it does not have quite the same tradition in still cameras as Olympus do.

If you by pedigree mean technical quality and good reputation, I would agree with you, I only care about design when it is for the cause of good functionality. A camera is just a tool. Although styling makes a nice photograph OF the camera, it isn't this feature that gives you the tool to take a good picture WITH the camera.

And reputation is something one must earn and earn to keep.

Loup Garou
19th July 2012, 04:18 PM
Wally, the Olympus MFT 40-150mm lens might feel cheap and plasticky but optically is is excellent.

Methinks that this is some sort of an agreement-game between Olympus and Panasonic regarding MFT lenses.

45mm Lens hood £8.19 from Hong Kong (incl shipping), Oly £30 incl shipping


Neither of those or any other lens hood marketed specifically for the Zuiko 45mm f/1.8 lens is ideal. It involves removing the front retaining ring to expose the bayonet mount and I heard that in time the ring becomes loose and may accidentally fall off.

Instead, I bought the Dorr 37mm universal lens hood (silver) for GBP 19.99 postage free. This is lightweight metal with a screw mount that threads either into the lens thread or the UV filter in front. It is also more compact than the custom-made hoods and so easier to store. Above all, it does its job perfectly.

Greytop
19th July 2012, 04:29 PM
If you by pedigree mean technical quality and good reputation, I would agree with you, I only care about design when it is for the cause of good functionality. A camera is just a tool. Although styling makes a nice photograph OF the camera, it isn't this feature that gives you the tool to take a good picture WITH the camera.

And reputation is something one must earn and earn to keep.

But styling does sell cameras......

For example I bet the Pentax K-01 (http://www.pentax.co.uk/en/digital-mirrorless/K01.html) is just flying off the shelves at the moment ;)

Olybirder
19th July 2012, 04:34 PM
For example I bet the Pentax K-01 (http://www.pentax.co.uk/en/digital-mirrorless/K01.html) is just flying off the shelves at the moment ;)
But surely Fisher Price products always sell better at Christmas. No, I didn't really mean that. Just a cheap shot. :o

Ron

Cathrine Stephansen
19th July 2012, 04:38 PM
But styling does sell cameras......



I know, the fancy designers and marketing people have taken over the world from engineers and scientists. Grrr... :mad:

Superficial things matter too much these days.

Where did I put my soapbox??

Greytop
19th July 2012, 04:41 PM
Where did I put my soapbox??

I think you're standing on it Cathrine :D:D;):)

Cathrine Stephansen
19th July 2012, 05:50 PM
I think you're standing on it Cathrine :D:D;):)

Ah, yes. THERE it is! :D

*chr

brianvickers
19th July 2012, 05:50 PM
Engineers and Scientists rule...totally, totally agree!
If all things are equal then I'll go for style....if I choose to spend the extra cash.

I don't think we are at the point where marketing transcends reality in photography.

Who was it that said 'marketeers take half truths and turn them in to absolute lies'?

OlyPaul
19th July 2012, 05:58 PM
Neither of those or any other lens hood marketed specifically for the Zuiko 45mm f/1.8 lens is ideal. It involves removing the front retaining ring to expose the bayonet mount and I heard that in time the ring becomes loose and may accidentally fall off.

Instead, I bought the Dorr 37mm universal lens hood (silver) for GBP 19.99 postage free. This is lightweight metal with a screw mount that threads either into the lens thread or the UV filter in front. It is also more compact than the custom-made hoods and so easier to store. Above all, it does its job perfectly.


I just take the cosmetic ring of them all and put them safely away in case or if they are sold. I always use a lens hood for very good reasons.

The only problem with metal screw on hoods and to some extent plastic hoods is unless you are very careful it is to easy to cross thread the lens thread when putting it on Also dinging the lens hood can cause damage to the what is a vulnerable bit of small plastic thread. I remember the days when lens threads were metal and more robust.:)

Loup Garou
20th July 2012, 02:31 AM
But styling does sell cameras......



I am not even remotely suggesting that styling on its own can sell a camera. But the Olympus OM-D is not only about its retro-style. It is a genuinely good camera that comes with a selection of good lenses. Granted, it may not suit everyone's requirements but then, which camera does? We are different in our preferences and priorities and in my own case, the OM-D fits all the slots perfectly. The retro-style is, of course, a welcome bonus.


quote=Olypaul; I just take the cosmetic ring of them all and put them safely away in case or if they are sold. I always use a lens hood for very good reasons.

The only problem with metal screw on hoods and to some extent plastic hoods is unless you are very careful it is to easy to cross thread the lens thread when putting it on Also dinging the lens hood can cause damage to the what is a vulnerable bit of small plastic thread. I remember the days when lens threads were metal and more robust.:)


Understood. But as I mentioned before, the Dorr hood is metal and the silver rimmed UV filter to which it screws into also feels metallish. In any case, the threading action is very smooth and I am usually quite careful in attaching the hood.

In fact, once on, I do not even have to keep removing the Dorr hood. The Zuiko 45mm lens is quite short and as I mentioned, the Dorr 37mm hood is compact and fits rather snugly. I found an old Tuf Traveller lens case from my old kit which is just the right size to store away the lens with the hood attached in a compartment of my padded camera bag. :)

Finally, the silver 45mm lens looks terrible with that black bayonet mount exposed. The plastic hoods are too fragile and large to store the lens with the hood in situ.

OlyPaul
20th July 2012, 07:14 AM
Finally, the silver 45mm lens looks terrible with that black bayonet mount exposed. The plastic hoods are too fragile and large to store the lens with the hood in situ.

Loup, you cannot see the bayonet mount when the lens hood is attached to the 45mm and mine always is. You can also reverse attach the lens hood to the lens so it is compact to store with it and takes very little room.:)

I'd also point out that if your hood is lot shorter then it is not really ideal for a focal length/angle of view of what is 90mm, especially if like me you like shooting a lot of backlit images for creative photography.

But as usual whatever you are happy with and works for you is the way to go.:)

David Morison
20th July 2012, 08:17 AM
If all things are equal then I'll go for style....if I choose to spend the extra cash.


But unfortunately all things are not equal and never will be - style will always compromise function and price. The E-M5 may have style (debatable) but the function is compromised by lack of buttons and what it does have are small, fiddly and too close together. The HLD-6 adds functionality but detracts from style and compactness, so there you have it - a shot in the foot IMHO!

David

jdal
20th July 2012, 08:21 AM
My #1 use for a lens hood is to protect the lens from damage by bashing off things when climbing or scrambling around undergrowth / ruins etc. The cheapo plastic hood is absolutely perfect for this, it projects far enough to keep branches and stuff off the lens/filter keeping it in clean, dry and in good nick. Plus it's flexible enough to soften impacts when the camera swings into something, it's usually the lens that catches it when that happens.

To try and steer this back on topic, even something as simple as a lens hood can be cause one person to cry foul and another to applaud. Hardly surprising that there are such differences of opinion over a new line of cameras.

andym
20th July 2012, 08:35 AM
My #1 use for a lens hood is to protect the lens from damage by bashing off things when climbing or scrambling around undergrowth / ruins etc. The cheapo plastic hood is absolutely perfect for this, it projects far enough to keep branches and stuff off the lens/filter keeping it in clean, dry and in good nick. Plus it's flexible enough to soften impacts when the camera swings into something, it's usually the lens that catches it when that happens.

To try and steer this back on topic, even something as simple as a lens hood can be cause one person to cry foul and another to applaud. Hardly surprising that there are such differences of opinion over a new line of cameras.

Well said.

I'm happy with both the camera and my cheapo lens hood.*yes*yes*yes*yes

Loup Garou
20th July 2012, 09:39 AM
Loup, if your hood is lot shorter then it is not really ideal for a focal length/angle of view of what is 90mm, especially if like me you like shooting a lot of backlit images for creative photography.


Despite appearances, it is NOT shorter than the custom built-hood for the 45mm lens, especially if you are also using a UV filter. As I mentioned in another thread, I had already ordered a cheap plastic custom-built hood for the lens before I heard about the Dorr one. Both arrived on the same day coincidentally. I tried noth on, marking the coverage distance on a white sheet. There is hardly any difference in hood coverage. A lot of the plastic hood goes behind the filter into the bayonet mount whereas the Dorr one screws in front of the filter.

Greytop
20th July 2012, 05:55 PM
I am not even remotely suggesting that styling on its own can sell a camera. But the Olympus OM-D is not only about its retro-style. It is a genuinely good camera that comes with a selection of good lenses. Granted, it may not suit everyone's requirements but then, which camera does? We are different in our preferences and priorities and in my own case, the OM-D fits all the slots perfectly. The retro-style is, of course, a welcome bonus.

Agreed, actually my comment was more of a jab at other cameras in the market sector and one in particular which in my opinion is quite frankly pig ugly (IMO) :eek:;)
The point being, if the product is not at least half acceptable from a presentational point of view in the first place then, well... it's going to be an uphill battle to sell.

Cathrine Stephansen
20th July 2012, 11:05 PM
I am not even remotely suggesting that styling on its own can sell a camera. But the Olympus OM-D is not only about its retro-style. It is a genuinely good camera that comes with a selection of good lenses. Granted, it may not suit everyone's requirements but then, which camera does? We are different in our preferences and priorities and in my own case, the OM-D fits all the slots perfectly. The retro-style is, of course, a welcome bonus.

.

I also think the OM-D looks good, and don't get me wrong - I agree that it doesn't hurt if it looks good in addition to being functional. I think the OM-D fills an niche that gives eager amateurs who don't need the heavy stuff, and who do general photography. We all need different things, that's why variety is best!

Chevvyf1
21st July 2012, 06:22 AM
Nothing, but perhaps that is the point. I borrowed from a friend a 7D plus a non IS 400mm f5.6 and could snap a bird in flight far easier than I could with my E5 with 300mm and the E-M5 wouldn't have stood a chance. Despite the increased portability of the E-M5 this is still a serious issue for me.



I haven't yet used the CAF Tracking, but in SAF or CAF I can hardly ever get focus lock on a flying bird, less of a problem with the E5.



I was prepared for slower AF, although in many cases it is much slower than I was led to believe from reports. For many subjects this isn't a problem but with the 50-200mm SWD/EC14 combo on any subject it rarely even achieves focus lock and then the focus is usually off.



But a lot has been said on this forum about the sensor movement causing some loss of IQ and I find this does happen occasionally with longer focal lengths - I don't get any problems with in-lens IS.



It is a huge problem when you are trying to catch interesting animal behaviour and the battery fails half way through. Usually the action is over by the time the battery is replaced.



After saying all this I do like the camera, it has some amazing and useful features and I love the light weight and portability. Also I think it works great for landscapes, architecture and macro etc. However for most of what I need it could have been so much better. With wildlife you rarely get a chance to examine the recorded image and take another one if it is poor. Perhaps with all the hype and reports I was expecting too much, so it's probably all my fault, but it doesn't change the facts as I see them.

David

David, I read this with great sadness in my heart, for Olympus and all the fun on here :(

... I am going backwards, in one respect - a friend is bringing over all his OM lenses for me - I use manual focus much of the time these days, so it is down to the quality of the glass.

I LURVE MY E-5 for the colours, superb images (I post a few junks on here, but PHEW! can it perform) and the waterproofing ... being as I lurve walking in the rain and mud - we don't shrink, this alone is worth its weight in gold (not having to have one of those dreadful rain covers on ... )

I was privvy to a few early write ups, one by ? Wong ? which pointed out many of these further development opportunities - hence my cancelled order :)

Greytop
21st July 2012, 08:30 AM
David, I read this with great sadness in my heart, for Olympus and all the fun on here :(

... I am going backwards, in one respect - a friend is bringing over all his OM lenses for me - I use manual focus much of the time these days, so it is down to the quality of the glass.

I LURVE MY E-5 for the colours, superb images (I post a few junks on here, but PHEW! can it perform) and the waterproofing ... being as I lurve walking in the rain and mud - we don't shrink, this alone is worth its weight in gold (not having to have one of those dreadful rain covers on ... )

I was privvy to a few early write ups, one by ? Wong ? which pointed out many of these further development opportunities - hence my cancelled order :)

The funny thing is Chevvy an E-M5 would be ideal for the shooting style you have just described, offering up some nice advantages when manual focusing with any lens :);)

brianvickers
21st July 2012, 08:37 AM
My conclusion is that with the right glass the E-M5 should out perform other models in IQ, but the continuous focussing and tracking are not as good as phase detection systems.
I'm continually impressed with the IQ of posts on here from E5 and others...I'm assuming its because of the glass? It would be good to see comparisons.

Chevvyf1
21st July 2012, 12:01 PM
My conclusion is that with the right glass the E-M5 should out perform other models in IQ, but the continuous focussing and tracking are not as good as phase detection systems.
I'm continually impressed with the IQ of posts on here from E5 and others...I'm assuming its because of the glass? It would be good to see comparisons.

Brian, IO was a long, long time - moving up to digital and my first E-1 was pre-loved :D BUT the images really Wow ! I was never going to buy another body (I have a few E-1's all pre loved) BUT then I saw a few shots of Steve (Wales) and my sox went - blown clean away by miles - and I ordered an E-5 - it EEKs a little bit more - NAY quite a lot more - out of the same Zuiko glass SHG especially and I shall soon find out about "old Oly OM" glass too :)

With this I have some AWESOME (even if I say it myself) shots, esp. of Bird in Flight - Red Kites ... without the amazing Focus Tracking that many here -Captain D (Chris) and Ellie and others left Olympus for :(

Why have I stuck with Olympus? - well, its a brand I have known all my life - there are not many about :) and I know my cameras inside out and there is still MUCH to learn to improve my photography with them. Much like my car and motorbikes, they do the job I bought them to do, when I bought them all the bells a whistles of that day worked - they still do. :D

I am NOT prepared to dump all this awesome glass and my bodies, YET !

BUT I sure wish they would get their act together :) ... :D their Markets will not hang around, brand loyalty is a thing for old folks - youngen's just dump it and get the next one ...

DekHog
21st July 2012, 12:39 PM
My conclusion is that with the right glass the E-M5 should out perform other models in IQ, but the continuous focussing and tracking are not as good as phase detection systems.
I'm continually impressed with the IQ of posts on here from E5 and others...I'm assuming its because of the glass? It would be good to see comparisons.

A lot of it is glass, but to me the biggest improvement the E-M5 brought was that sensor; it's a quantum leap forward in every way; DR and high ISO specifically.

The good (read: great) glass is there, and more is on the way, and this just brings out the best of what is already there with the new sensor.

Moving objects? Birds? Wildlife? I think you either perhaps need to wait a year or two or move to another system. As much as some people appear to like shooting pictures of birds, Olympus isn't here to cater specifically to that crowd, and has the wider business to think about. To my mind, the OM-D brings everything you could want to the market apart from in the situations mentioned above.

There probably is a near-perfect camera out there for everyone, but not necessarily an Olympus depending on what you want to shoot.

David Morison
21st July 2012, 07:19 PM
Moving objects? Birds? Wildlife? I think you either perhaps need to wait a year or two or move to another system. As much as some people appear to like shooting pictures of birds, Olympus isn't here to cater specifically to that crowd, and has the wider business to think about. To my mind, the OM-D brings everything you could want to the market apart from in the situations mentioned above.

There probably is a near-perfect camera out there for everyone, but not necessarily an Olympus depending on what you want to shoot.

The sad fact is that the E5, whilst having a "lesser" sensor to the E-M5, does the fast-moving subject thing pretty good as well as most other subjects and the E30 did this as well. Despite the amazing technical advancements of the E-M5 it is less of an all-rounder than the it's predecessors. Was it advertised as such? Was there a marketing reason for this? Is Olympus really thinking about the wider business? Perhaps we will never know, but now it makes me wary of looking at any future developments from Olympus even after technical reviews etc. I will wait and maybe hire to assess it according to my own needs.

David

Ross the fiddler
22nd July 2012, 12:44 AM
The sad fact is that the E5, whilst having a "lesser" sensor to the E-M5, does the fast-moving subject thing pretty good as well as most other subjects and the E30 did this as well. Despite the amazing technical advancements of the E-M5 it is less of an all-rounder than the it's predecessors. Was it advertised as such? Was there a marketing reason for this? Is Olympus really thinking about the wider business? Perhaps we will never know, but now it makes me wary of looking at any future developments from Olympus even after technical reviews etc. I will wait and maybe hire to assess it according to my own needs.

David

I think it's a great move forward, even if it doesn't tick the box for everyone. Whether they do "the E-P1 to E-P2" thing to us with something that will take care of PD-AF in another model within the next 6 months, this (E-M5) is still a very capable tool (but it might p**s some of us off if they do).

the biggest improvement the E-M5 brought was that sensor; it's a quantum leap forward in every way; DR and high ISO specifically.

Add the 5 Axis IS to that & that is how I see it. It gives me greater use from my ZD70-300 lens with both the possibility of higher shutter speeds & better IS. I will eventually get a faster AFing lens to put into the kit instead.

StephenL
22nd July 2012, 06:36 AM
Despite the amazing technical advancements of the E-M5 it is less of an all-rounder than the it's predecessors.

David

Well, for my needs it's more of an all-rounder, due to its greater portability. It means I'm more likely to take it with me than leave it at home, which is what happened with the E-3. :)

Phill D
22nd July 2012, 07:20 AM
Having just caught up with this thread I have to say I'm both sad and glad that I didn't invest in an EM-5. At Focus I was so close to flexing that plastic and putting all my other 4/3s stuff up for sale but something in my mind just said wait. Now I'm sad because I missed out on the 90% fantastic upgraded photography experience I'd have got but just slightly glad that it appears I'd have been dissapointed and frustrated with the af performance. Can't shoot fast moving subjects - wildlife, birds in flight, race cars, air displays that would be a disaster and really take the shine off a new camera. Surely this can't be true. I hear the EM-5 exhaultations and the concerns so can those who have EM-5s please post some examples where they have shot these situations and be honest about the level of difficulty they experienced keeper ratio etc. I'd just like to get this in perspective. For me a £1000 camera that can't grab that fast moving shot on the odd occasion I want it to is not going to get purchased, is it really that bad? I post this hoping that users prove it isn't.

David M
22nd July 2012, 12:10 PM
I don't see why the EM-5 can't photograph fast moving subjects in the hands of a photographer who knows how to focus manually.

David Morison
22nd July 2012, 12:18 PM
I don't see why the EM-5 can't photograph fast moving subjects in the hands of a photographer who knows how to focus manually.
I'd like to see a manually focussed shot of a Swallow or Swift in flight from any camera, I bet there aren't many and it is likely that the photographer had immense skill or was just lucky. I've seen plenty AF shots from a Canon 7D though.

David

David M
22nd July 2012, 12:33 PM
I've got a manually focussed shot of a Common Swift in flight taken 2 decades ago.

Ross the fiddler
22nd July 2012, 12:54 PM
I'd like to see a manually focussed shot of a Swallow or Swift in flight from any camera, I bet there aren't many and it is likely that the photographer had immense skill or was just lucky. I've seen plenty AF shots from a Canon 7D though.

David

I don't have any birds in flight, but what about a FiF (fly in flight)?

I took these with the 70-300 lens & EC14 on my E30 in MF (had no choice with these so small) as they flew about the place. That is not to say I would be as successful on the E-M5.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/P3059617-s2.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49412)

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/506/P3059635-s.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=49413)

*ohwell

sapper
23rd July 2012, 08:05 AM
Thank you David M for your OP, this discussion has been really helpful, I will probably buy the EM-5 and keep the E5 too.

jdal
23rd July 2012, 08:16 AM
FWIW, I think this focus issue, which is the only real systematic drawback mentioned in this thread, will ultimately be resolved in these CDAF mirrorless cams. Maybe by firmware, maybe by a composite PDAF/CDAF implementation, maybe something completely different.

If I still had my 4/3 gear with some very expensive long glass I'd certainly hang on and keep it. That SHG glass is not going to be bettered and even if m4/3 never improves with it, Oly have said that they will continue to offer bodies.

I'd still get the E-M5 though, it's just too good to miss.

Loup Garou
23rd July 2012, 08:34 AM
I don't see why the EM-5 can't photograph fast moving subjects in the hands of a photographer who knows how to focus manually.

Precisely. AFAIK, Autofocus has been around for less than 30 years. There were very good action photographers before then, I am sure.

Wally
23rd July 2012, 10:33 AM
These last few posts have I think hit the nail on the head. We've become too dependent on 'auto' this and 'auto' that to such an extent that some togging practices have become almost a black art. I think that for many of us, It's time to get back to basics. At day's end, any camera is a tool and it is up to the user to push the envelope and use it to full capacity. It's not what's in front of the camera but what's behind it that makes all the difference.