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snaarman
1st May 2012, 08:12 PM
I know it's early days, but I wonder what other owners make of the E-M5 IS system. To me it seems rather good...

One of my first attempts produced a sharp shot from the 45mm at 1/8th second hand held.

Suitable encouraged I just tried my 200mm Vivitar (that was destined for ebay) at dusk. I just got a sharp image at 1/15th second hand held :)

It seems to me that it really does deliver the goods, possibly two stops improvement on the E620/E-PL3 technology.

Am I fooling myself? Maybe that gentle E-M5 whispering noise actually calms the troubled breast?

Pete

DekHog
1st May 2012, 08:49 PM
There's a good thread with some fantastic examples over on mu-43 - peeps are raving about it and hand holding primes at 1/2 second with really sharp results.... calling it a game changer. Example (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/7116627787/).

snaarman
1st May 2012, 08:57 PM
Yes, that is a nice example.. It does seem to work a whole lot better than I expected..

(Here's that 45mm 1/8th second shot)

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/622/EM500005.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/45927)

And on that basis a 12mm 1/2 second job doesn't seem so unlikely.

BTW. I think Olympus are missing a smart marketing opportunity with the E-M5. Every owner soon becomes aware of the gentle breathing noise it makes. No other camera does that. Talk about ghost in the machine...

(My theory is they ship each one with an elf that is responsible for the image stabilisation and the high ISO performance. It's the elf you can hear, and it is fitting the elves is what has slowed the shipments down..)

Anyway, Olympus should play this up in their advert campaigns. The camera breathes, it is engaged in your photography. You can sense that it wants to be involved in your next picture... BTW - This concept (c) snaarman...


Pete

drmarkf
1st May 2012, 09:21 PM
a game changer. Example (http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/7116627787/).

Yay!

Bearing in mind tomorrow's weather forecast I may be putting this to serious test on my visit to the north...

Greytop
1st May 2012, 10:06 PM
Umm... much as I am impressed with the E-M5 at this moment in time I'm not completely convinced by the 5-axis IBIS, perhaps it's my E-M5, perhaps it's me but on more than the odd occasion it has not made the grade.
I have found it inconsistent at around 1/10 - 1/20th second where I would have expected it to eat sharp shots. It can do it most certainly as I posted an example here (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=163547#post163547) but not all of the time.

I get the feeling that it needs a degree of warm up and exercising to perform, for example locking onto a subject then moving the body around to limbo up the IBIS seems to improve things, I have IBIS activated with the half shutter press.

I would be interested to hear others' experiences.

Ross the fiddler
3rd May 2012, 05:28 AM
Umm... much as I am impressed with the E-M5 at this moment in time I'm not completely convinced by the 5-axis IBIS, perhaps it's my E-M5, perhaps it's me but on more than the odd occasion it has not made the grade.
I have found it inconsistent at around 1/10 - 1/20th second where I would have expected it to eat sharp shots. It can do it most certainly as I posted an example here (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=163547#post163547) but not all of the time.

I get the feeling that it needs a degree of warm up and exercising to perform, for example locking onto a subject then moving the body around to limbo up the IBIS seems to improve things, I have IBIS activated with the half shutter press.

I would be interested to hear others' experiences.

I hope it isn't this problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQy5ltYWWpg&feature=youtu.be

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 08:55 AM
I hope it isn't this problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQy5ltYWWpg&feature=youtu.be
No nothing that obvious Ross, in some ways it would better if it was as that problem is pretty blatant isn't it.
No mine is intermittent, sometimes after power up the IS performs very poorly, actually worse than having it turned off. So where normally you would expect to be able to nail a sharp shot at 1/15 sec with the 45mm you get a very blurred shot, even 1/30 sec is worse than with the IS set to off. Then on other occasions it's perfect performing wonders at 1/5 and 1/6th of a second.

Here are some examples of the IS not performing...

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/Greytop_photos/E-M5%20IBIS%20issues/1-15_IS1.jpg

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/Greytop_photos/E-M5%20IBIS%20issues/1-15_No_IS.jpg

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/Greytop_photos/E-M5%20IBIS%20issues/1-30_IS1.jpg

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab269/Greytop_photos/E-M5%20IBIS%20issues/1-30_No_IS.jpg

Oddly enough this last shot's Exif shows that the IS was on but it definitely was off in the menu. Another strange one??

Bikie John
3rd May 2012, 09:29 AM
Your reasults look similar to what I got when the E-5 was new. IS seemed to add movement blur to photos that should have been sharp and in the end I just gave up on it. I wonder if some people have "IS-friendly" hands and some don't.

Ciao ... John

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 10:01 AM
Your reasults look similar to what I got when the E-5 was new. IS seemed to add movement blur to photos that should have been sharp and in the end I just gave up on it. I wonder if some people have "IS-friendly" hands and some don't.

Ciao ... John

It's certainly odd behaviour from the E-M5, when the IS is not playing ball you might as well have it turned off (as you can see above).
On the other hand when it is working as it should you are able to get shots like this one at 1/6 sec.

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/50_to_45.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/45956)

I've found that a good indicator of the impending issue is when applying a half shutter press to activate the IS in the EVF the whole image moves to the right a noticeable amount.
When the shutter is released it moves back. When it does this I know the IS up to the tricks shown in the 100% crops above.

Ross the fiddler
3rd May 2012, 12:13 PM
You're making me nervous. I can cancel my order before I take the camera, but I hope this is an isolated case of this problem (although I'm only an hours drive from Oly Service here) & it can be sorted for you OK. This makes me wonder about the sensitivity of the gyro sensors & if rough parcel handling could have damaged them. I wouldn't have thought so, but I hope there is an answer to this issue quickly. To put it simply, it sounds like a sticking gyro sensor, or faulty (IS) driver circuitry.

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 12:34 PM
Sorry Ross I'm just reporting my findings and to be honest I'm disappointed but I haven't seen any other reports of a similar problem to mine although there is that nasty IS clicking problem you have highlighted.
To be 100% fair this is an intermittent problem with mine, it's not like it all of the time. If I had to put a figure on it I would say perhaps 10-20% but then after a bit of use, i.e. several shots it seems to iron it's self out. Having said that it's not acceptable particularly as this is one of the headline features of the camera.
All other aspects of the E-M5 are excellent, there no doubt in my mind that it's the camera I will now end up using most, if I can get one without any faults :)

Ross the fiddler
3rd May 2012, 01:06 PM
Sorry Ross I'm just reporting my findings and to be honest I'm disappointed but I haven't seen any other reports of a similar problem to mine although there is that nasty IS clicking problem you have highlighted.
To be 100% fair this is an intermittent problem with mine it's not like it all of the time. If I had to put a figure on it I would say perhaps 10-20% but then after a bit of use, i.e. several shots it seems to iron it's self out. Having said that it's not acceptable particularly as this is one of the headline features of the camera.
All other aspects of the E-M5 are excellent, there no doubt in my mind that it's the camera I will now end up using most, if I can get one without any faults :)

I think I will enjoy mine too when it finally arrives, as a great entry into the 4/3 world, but in the mean time I can read everybodies comments on it & the manual too (bed time reading :rolleyes:). It really does sound like a sticking gyro sensor (I'm being simplistic again). What happens in video? Have you tried that yet? (I'm going to bed now & will do a bit of bed time reading & I'll see your answer in the morning. :D)

Kiwi Paul
3rd May 2012, 02:03 PM
Your reasults look similar to what I got when the E-5 was new. IS seemed to add movement blur to photos that should have been sharp and in the end I just gave up on it. I wonder if some people have "IS-friendly" hands and some don't.

Ciao ... John

I had the same problem with my E5 but after a few months it just came right and was fine after that, so the IS is prone to issues, I sent my camera back to Oly under warranty but they never found a problem.

Paul

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 02:37 PM
I had the same problem with my E5 but after a few months it just came right and was fine after that, so the IS is prone to issues, I sent my camera back to Oly under warranty but they never found a problem.

Paul

I remember you mentioning that Paul, wasn't it more apparent in a portrait orientation than landscape with your E-5?

I have spoken to Chris at SRS he has put another black E-M5 body by for me (decent chap). I'm going to drive up to Watford Saturday morning and try to demonstrate the problem (not always easy with intermittent faults).

snaarman
3rd May 2012, 02:44 PM
Sorry to hear this. I do hope you can get a swap from SRS. Thus far I haven't seen anything wrong with IS on this new camera. In fact it seems quite astonishing.

However I always had my suspicions about the E620 IS. I kept getting what I would describe as double images, as if the sensor decided to move to a new position during the exposure.

This would happen at fairly high shutter speeds, and I always wondered why the IS doesn't disable itself when not needed. After all, it knows the focal length of the lens and the shutter speed selected.

That would be a useful firmware tweak, an option that IS only runs if shutter speed is less than focal length*2 or whatever..

Pete

StephenL
3rd May 2012, 02:50 PM
So far my IS seems to have behaved, but I notice that as it achieves stability it lists to the left a tad.

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 03:18 PM
Sorry to hear this. I do hope you can get a swap from SRS. Thus far I haven't seen anything wrong with IS on this new camera. In fact it seems quite astonishing.

However I always had my suspicions about the E620 IS. I kept getting what I would describe as double images, as if the sensor decided to move to a new position during the exposure.

This would happen at fairly high shutter speeds, and I always wondered why the IS doesn't disable itself when not needed. After all, it knows the focal length of the lens and the shutter speed selected.

That would be a useful firmware tweak, an option that IS only runs if shutter speed is less than focal length*2 or whatever..

Pete

Thanks Pete, I'm hopeful of a satisfactory solution on Saturday, Chris Harland is good guy and treats customer satisfaction as high priority.

Your idea is an excellent one it wouldn't be that hard to implement, the combination of focal length and shutter speed being the main constituents.

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 03:21 PM
So far my IS seems to have behaved, but I notice that as it achieves stability it lists to the left a tad.

Excellent information Stephen *chr
When mine is playing up it moves quite significantly to the right in the EVF. When it's behaving it moves hardly at all.

Doug H
3rd May 2012, 05:35 PM
Almost certainly not related to IS nor to any of you, especially in view of yor tests, but I did notice that my own handholding technique needs a bit more concentration - especially when using the camera in portrait mode. I was sure I felt something like a little "recoil" from the camera when I pressed the shutter when going for a grab shot and not holding the camera well enough.
Coming from an E-3 with HG lenses, I did feel that the light weight of the camera and that diminutive "thunk" shutter noise (which I really do like though completely silent would be good to aim for, please, Olympus) made me a bit sloppy and so I resolved to treat the OM-D with the respect that it deserves instead of like a slightly overgrown compact with a much simpler form of shutter.

Off to shoot some still life now to see what needs fixing.

On the subect of still - or not so still - life, I'm in the process of selling my house and a viewer commented on my wildlife photos and said "You obviously like animals then" to which I replied "Oh, I like shooting them" and two seconds later "with a camera" - but the two second pause was clearly too much - her face was a picture - she's not likely to buy the house!

Ross the fiddler
3rd May 2012, 10:38 PM
Sorry to hear this. I do hope you can get a swap from SRS. Thus far I haven't seen anything wrong with IS on this new camera. In fact it seems quite astonishing.

However I always had my suspicions about the E620 IS. I kept getting what I would describe as double images, as if the sensor decided to move to a new position during the exposure.

This would happen at fairly high shutter speeds, and I always wondered why the IS doesn't disable itself when not needed. After all, it knows the focal length of the lens and the shutter speed selected.

That would be a useful firmware tweak, an option that IS only runs if shutter speed is less than focal length*2 or whatever..

Pete

It would need to correlate with the focal length too though. I guess it could be useful if that was done, however, my E30 will give me a double image if I lean on a solid object (table), but will work correctly when the camera isn't braced at all (& that would include into the body to some extent too). Hopefully the limitations of the two axis IS is now solved (to some extent) with the 5 axis system, with regard to the times when the camera has been (inadvertently) supported in one direction, but then IS2 & 3 have been provided to allow us to use it with some control over its behaviour.

Greytop
3rd May 2012, 11:04 PM
What happens in video? Have you tried that yet? (I'm going to bed now & will do a bit of bed time reading & I'll see your answer in the morning. :D)

Hi Ross, I haven't really got around to testing video seriously with it as the stills and IS problem was the most pressing issue.
I can say that from the short clips I did run off it seemed pretty good just viewing the playback via the rear screen but I suspect at that point the IS was behaving it's self.
It's all packed up in the box now ready for the trip back to SRS on Saturday morning.

OlyPaul
4th May 2012, 07:14 AM
Huw as it works on what is virtually a floating magnetic gyroscope much like a compass, I have to ask were you near a strong magnetic source like TV/speakers etc when taking those images, just a thought.:)

Greytop
4th May 2012, 07:40 AM
Huw as it works on what is virtually a floating magnetic gyroscope much like a compass, I have to ask were you near a strong magnetic source like TV/speakers etc when taking those images, just a thought.:)

Hi Paul, good thinking but no it has performed the same at a few different locations :(

David Morison
4th May 2012, 08:04 AM
I had the same problem with my E5 but after a few months it just came right and was fine after that, so the IS is prone to issues, I sent my camera back to Oly under warranty but they never found a problem.

Paul

Same here and I am prepared to have to "settle in" with the new tool. IS was appalling with the Leica 14-150mm until I updated the firmware to 1.1 but now it seems spot-on.

David

Ross the fiddler
4th May 2012, 09:07 AM
Same here and I am prepared to have to "settle in" with the new tool. IS was appalling with the Leica 14-150mm until I updated the firmware to 1.1 but now it seems spot-on.

David

Updating the E-M5 was also discussed on another thread (http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?p=163941#post163941) & the E-M5 can't be updated from older camera updater software.

This is copied from the Olympus update info page (http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/software/firm/e1/#omd).

Firmware update for OM-D series
Model name ver. Description How to update Release
E-M5 *2 1.1 Click here (http://dl01.olympus-imaging.com/ww/ud2/ENU/0001/0970/index01a.html) Digital Camera Updater Apr. 18, 2012
*2 Before updating the firmware, install the Digital Camera Updater from the CD-ROM that is packaged with the E-M5 or download the latest version of the Digital Camera Updater (Win: ver. 1.03 / Mac: ver. 1.04).
You cannot update the firmware if updating with the earlier version of the Digital Camera Updater.
OLYMPUS Digital Camera Updater

Ross the fiddler
4th May 2012, 11:43 PM
I just noticed that another camera manufacturer has lock up issues with their 2 latest models (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/04/Nikon-tells-PDN-it-is-looking-at-D4-D800-lockup-bug), so any bugs that Olympus may need to rectify with the E-M5, we can take comfort that others have their issues too.

drmarkf
5th May 2012, 09:03 AM
we can take comfort that others have their issues too.

...and we mustn't forget that the photographic aristocracy have suffered, too:

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/11/11/new-leica-m9-firmware-released-fixes-sd-card-problems-v-1-174/

Invicta
5th May 2012, 09:04 AM
This review came to the conclusion:

"our test conditions do not recognize any improvement from the system over simply leaving it off"

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Digital-Camera-Review/Sharpness.htm

The camera comparison chart at the bottom is puzzling, it is almost as if the new IS is not working on the E-M5.

Got an E-M5 on order, so keen to hear others views on this.

Greytop
5th May 2012, 09:33 AM
This review came to the conclusion:

"our test conditions do not recognize any improvement from the system over simply leaving it off"

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Digital-Camera-Review/Sharpness.htm

The camera comparison chart at the bottom is puzzling, it is almost as if the new IS is not working on the E-M5.

Got an E-M5 on order, so keen to hear others views on this.

That is interesting and not altogether different from mine when the IS is playing up. I would say however that when it works it is excellent so I suspect these guys also had a faulty camera.

David Morison
5th May 2012, 03:18 PM
Just had the first trip out with the EM-5 and 75-300mm, down on the marsh trying it out on birds. Interestingly if I set a low ISO level, 200, which under the dull conditions meant a slow shutter speed the IS worked brilliantly. However as the noise levels at higher ISOs is pretty low I set the ISO to Auto with a top level of 3200. This translated to higher shutter speeds and then the IS played up. Coming from an E5 plus 300mm f2.8 (nearly 4kg) I have a habit of trying manfully to hold the camera as steady as humanly possible but with this lighter setup it resulted in the IS producing a fairly blurred image. Strangely wiggling the camera around after focusing allowed the IS to do it's job and the movement involved in trying to photograph a bird in flight it also works well. When the battery has recharged I will download a few images to illustrate.

Regards

David

David

Bikie John
5th May 2012, 03:39 PM
Interesting findings, David. Thanks, please keep us posted. One trouble with understanding IS is that it is so difficult to do controlled tests, so if you are finding that particular circumstances do or don't work that is a great help.

Ciao ... John

Kiwi Paul
5th May 2012, 03:57 PM
I think the moral is to go out on a heavy drinking session the night before you plan to take photos so when you go out the next day the dt's actually help you get sharper pics!!! Of course if you have a camera without IBIS ignore this advice!! lol

Seriously though my E5 used to exhibit similar characteristics so IBIS does seem to have a few woes.

Paul

Greytop
5th May 2012, 04:20 PM
Just got back from SRS, all is now good, my replacement E-M5's IS performs perfectly. Very pleased and a big thanks to SRS for their excellent customer support *chr

PS: I must admit I had a moment of weakness while I was there and opted to pay the extra for the body with 12-50 kit :o

Kiwi Paul
5th May 2012, 04:28 PM
Glad it was sorted so easily Huw and I think you did the right thing getting the 12-50 as part of the kit.

Enjoy!!

Paul

Ross the fiddler
6th May 2012, 01:11 AM
Just got back from SRS, all is now good, my replacement E-M5's IS performs perfectly. Very pleased and a big thanks to SRS for their excellent customer support *chr

PS: I must admit I had a moment of weakness while I was there and opted to pay the extra for the body with 12-50 kit :o

That sounds like good news. As good as the 14-54 II lens is, I think the M12-50 will be a good all rounder light lens to use (plus very fast focussing) & I can understanding you going for it. Well, that is why I decided to go for it, but for more serious shots (landscape & portraits), for me, the 14-54 II will probably get used instead.

Now for some more great photos from you Huw. :D
*chr

Greytop
6th May 2012, 10:03 AM
Glad it was sorted so easily Huw and I think you did the right thing getting the 12-50 as part of the kit.

Enjoy!!

Paul

Thanks Paul here's hoping :)
The 12-50 is certainly very compact in diameter if a little long in proportion but then it is an internal zoom mechanism. I actually think they could have afforded to have gone up on diameter which would have helped the rather limited maximum aperture.
Having said that there is the fast focussing and of the few test images I have taken things don't look too bad :)

That sounds like good news. As good as the 14-54 II lens is, I think the M12-50 will be a good all rounder light lens to use (plus very fast focussing) & I can understanding you going for it. Well, that is why I decided to go for it, but for more serious shots (landscape & portraits), for me, the 14-54 II will probably get used instead.

Now for some more great photos from you Huw. :D
*chr

Thanks Ross, I'm glad it is sorted, an E-M5 with IS performing correctly is quite a wonder :)
My moment of weakness did have mitigating circumstances :)
It wasn't helped by the fact the guys at SRS brought out a new E-M5 plus Kit box, not just the body to replace my unit.
For a moment I thought 'but I only need the body', quickly followed by the inevitable 'oh well it's really not much extra and could be useful'......end of story :D