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DJMC
24th May 2011, 10:01 AM
Just considering an E-1 or E-3 but seem to recall, as with other 'E' lenses, that there are two 'Marks' of lenses, i.e. a Mk1 and a Mk2?

If there is and older 14-54 lens and a newer one, what are the differences and what's the easiest way to tell them apart?

It may be that the E-1 had one type and the E-3 a later version?

Also, will the 14-54 work on my E-510 in the same manner as a 'standard' kit lens does (i.e. my 14-42) and will my standard E-510 lenses work on the E-1 or E-3, albeit more slow to focus than their dedicated 14-54 lens?

Thanks for any help!

;)

Ian
24th May 2011, 10:06 AM
Just considering an E-1 or E-3 but seem to recall, as with other 'E' lenses, that there are two 'Marks' of lenses, i.e. a Mk1 and a Mk2?

If there is and older 14-54 lens and a newer one, what are the differences and what's the easiest way to tell them apart?

It may be that the E-1 had one type and the E-3 a later version?

Also, will the 14-54 work on my E-510 in the same manner as a 'standard' kit lens does (i.e. my 14-42) and will my standard E-510 lenses work on the E-1 or E-3, albeit more slow to focus than their dedicated 14-54 lens?

Thanks for any help!

;)

Yes, the E-1 was supplied with the original 14-54. The Mark II can be identified by a metallic blue ring near the front of the lens. The main differences are that the Mark II has a focus motor that will focus faster on live view cameras, and it has a more circular profile aperture iris. Optically it's identical to the older version. Another key difference is that the new one has a different lens hood bayonet and it can't be used with the Olympus ring flash, which the original was designed for.

Ian

StephenL
24th May 2011, 10:24 AM
Also bear in mind, for the dyslexically challenged like myself, the E-1 was also supplied with the 14-45 lens! A totally different and slightly inferior lens.

francois
24th May 2011, 10:29 AM
Another key difference is that the new one has a different lens hood bayonet and it can't be used with the Olympus ring flash, which the original was designed for.

Indeed, and it's the same story with the 50-200 compared with the 50-200SWD. I'm having to make my own adapter to use the latter with the RF-11, and it's also why I keep the original 14-54. However, once the adapter is ready with a 67mm thread and mark I bayonet, a step down 72-67mm ring should enable me to use the 12-60 too. Such a small step down shouldn't have any vignetting impact.

DJMC
24th May 2011, 10:31 AM
Thanks Ian.

When you say the Mk2 has a focus motor I assume the Mk1 does too, but the Mk2's just works faster with live view, presumably as that feature came in with the E-3?

What about lens interchangeability between the Mk1 or Mk2 14-54 and E-510 body. Will the Mk2 work faster than the Mk1 on this body which also has live view?

Being an 'old' OM2 user I'm wondering if what I've heard about the E-1 makes it more of a next step up than the E-510 I've bought. i.e. do I need all the E-510's features. It's the viewfinder on the 510 which lets it down I think but I don't know how much better the E-1's is?

I appreciate I get IS with the 510 and lower MP with the E-1 but I'm not into printing big photos so that doesn't worry me.

I have a mind to try both the E-510 and E-1 (if I buy one) with a view to selling the E-510 and 14-42 lens but keeping its 40-150 lens for the E-1 in addition to its 14-54 standard lens.

I'm saying E-1 here as the cheapest E-3's are around 450 for a body only (apart from Francois' one!) but someone I know will let me have their E-1 with 14-54 lens and FL-36R flash for 200 which seems a good deal!?

Being an E-1 I'm sure it must have the Mk1 lens? I'll find out.....

Others may keep both bodies as a double act and best of both worlds but my original intention was to buy a replacement set-up with the money from selling all my OM2 bits on Ebay. These went for around 150. So although I can afford to keep both, I also have a wife who can't understand why I wanted "another" camera when I already have a Casio EX-600!! :o

;)

Ian
24th May 2011, 10:56 AM
My responses in red:

Thanks Ian.

When you say the Mk2 has a focus motor I assume the Mk1 does too, but the Mk2's just works faster with live view, presumably as that feature came in with the E-3? Yes the E-3 has live view, but not imager AF - the E-3, like the E-510 and E-410, uses the phase detect to autofocus in live view mode, so it drops the mirror and blanks the screen to focus. The E-420, E-520, E-30 and later use imager AF, which is where you need the modified AF motor that the 14-54 II has.

What about lens interchangeability between the Mk1 or Mk2 14-54 and E-510 body. Will the Mk2 work faster than the Mk1 on this body which also has live view? No the 14-54 II has no focus speed advantages for the E-3, E-510 , E-410 and earlier cameras.

Being an 'old' OM2 user I'm wondering if what I've heard about the E-1 makes it more of a next step up than the E-510 I've bought. i.e. do I need all the E-510's features. It's the viewfinder on the 510 which lets it down I think but I don't know how much better the E-1's is? The E-1 finder is bigger and more spacious than the E-510's, and the info is along the bottom rather than to the right hand side of the view in the E-510. But there are no illuminated AF points, just engravings on the focus screen.

I appreciate I get IS with the 510 and lower MP with the E-1 but I'm not into printing big photos so that doesn't worry me.

I have a mind to try both the E-510 and E-1 (if I buy one) with a view to selling the E-510 and 14-42 lens but keeping its 40-150 lens for the E-1 in addition to its 14-54 standard lens.

I'm saying E-1 here as the cheapest E-3's are around 450 for a body only (apart from Francois' one!) but someone I know will let me have their E-1 with 14-54 lens and FL-36R flash for 200 which seems a good deal!?

Being an E-1 I'm sure it must have the Mk1 lens? I'll find out.....

Others may keep both bodies as a double act and best of both worlds but my original intention was to buy a replacement set-up with the money from selling all my OM2 bits on Ebay. These went for around 150. So although I can afford to keep both, I also have a wife who can't understand why I wanted "another" camera when I already have a Casio EX-600!! :o

;)

The E-1 oozes quality - it has a die-cast alloy body and feels indestructable. It also has a super quiet and well-damped shutter mechanism. It feels much more expensive than an E-510. I got my E-1 out the other day and the only thing which niggled me was the size of the colour LCD screen. It is truly tiny by modern standards and it's difficult to review photos meaningfully. The top plate status LCD panel, on the other hand is large and easy to read. There is no pop-up flash on the E-1 and opinions tend to polarise concerning the consequences of this :) I think if I were you, maybe the E-1 is the choice to aim for. You can also get the HLD-1 power grip for the E-1.

Ian

DJMC
24th May 2011, 11:24 AM
My responses in red:



The E-1 oozes quality - it has a die-cast alloy body and feels indestructable. It also has a super quiet and well-damped shutter mechanism. It feels much more expensive than an E-510. I got my E-1 out the other day and the only thing which niggled me was the size of the colour LCD screen. It is truly tiny by modern standards and it's difficult to review photos meaningfully. The top plate status LCD panel, on the other hand is large and easy to read. There is no pop-up flash on the E-1 and opinions tend to polarise concerning the consequences of this :) I think if I were you, maybe the E-1 is the choice to aim for. You can also get the HLD-1 power grip for the E-1.

Ian

That's all very clear Ian, thanks.

With the E-510 I have the three illuminating AF points but I always use the middle one to focus - just seems the right thing to do! I haven't yet got around to switching to centre AF only, which I believe is possible.

The non-illumination of the AF points on the E-1 is not a problem but does it still 'beep' to confirm focus lock, and can I select the centre only, as I understand that AF point has sensitivity to both horizontal and vertical detail whereas the outer two points only pick up horizontal?

I tend to review photos on my PC rather than the E-510's screen but appreciate that the small size of the E-1's screen may be a problem when away from home. Having said that, how many 5MP photos can I get on a 4GB CF card!? Should be more than adequate to be able to dump the naff ones!

Flash-wise, I seem to be constantly turning off the E-510's flash in favour of a slower shutter speed but again the lack of IS on the E-1 may not be to my liking. I know the FL-36R will work on the E-1 but am I better selling this to an E-3 user, where the remote function will work between camera and flash, and buying a hot shoe only flash for the E-1? Was there a flash designed for use with the E-1 at the time it first sold, or would such an item be vastly inferior to the FL-36R? Just don't like having things with extra functionality I can't use!

:)

The Technician
24th May 2011, 11:38 AM
Just a thought you could buy that good deal from someone you know and sell the flash, E1 and your E-510 and you should be able to get a E3 :-)

francois
24th May 2011, 11:49 AM
the cheapest E-3's are around 450 for a body only (apart from Francois' one!) but someone I know will let me have their E-1 with 14-54 lens and FL-36R flash for 200 which seems a good deal!?

Well, I'm still in shock! ;)

Yes, 450 is about right, often 500 on eBay, and even 600 as used from dealers.

For me, that E-1, 14-54mm and FL36R at 200 is a bargain. You could spend 100 easy on a used FL-36R.

it must have the Mk1 lens? I'll find out.....

It's still a good lens, don't worry about it not being the mark II type.

I also have a wife who can't understand why I wanted "another" camera

Ah... yes, we all have to face the boss at some point or another. My take on this is that I need three bodies, one for portrait, one for landscape and one for sports/action. So that leaves me room for an E-5 later on ;) The trick is to make sure that you spend some time taking fabulous pictures of your kids. Once she (or he) sees that, adding photo gear comes much more easily!

Of course, the other option is to find a wife who's even more a photo nut as you are. Personally, I've failed miserably in that respect. However, she's learned to live with my idiosyncrasies and accept my large Olympus collection.

DJMC
24th May 2011, 11:53 AM
Just a thought you could buy that good deal from someone you know and sell the flash, E1 and your E-510 and you should be able to get a E3 :-)

Oh.... you b****r!!
Let's see.....
Buy E-1 kit for 200.
Keep the 14-54 and 40-150 for the E-3 (latter lens maybe change at a later date!).
Sell E-510 with 14-42 for what.... 200?
That's what I'd be doing if I kept the E-1, so at this point I'm even.

Sell E-1 body for 125?
Sell flash for 125?

That's 250 toward an E-3 so I'm still 200 short, or have I missed something? :rolleyes:

Still, effectively it could mean an E-3 with 14-54 & 40-150 lens for 200 net outlay. Just have to sneak it past the wife! :eek:

StephenL
24th May 2011, 11:53 AM
My wife just despairs of me. But she likes the photos I take, so puts up with my hobby. How much it costs, well, what she doesn't know.... ;)


Ah... yes, we all have to face the boss at some point or another. My take on this is that I need three bodies, one for portrait, one for landscape and one for sports/action. So that leaves me room for an E-5 later on ;) The trick is to make sure that you spend some time taking fabulous pictures of your kids. Once she (or he) sees that, adding photo gear comes much more easily!

Of course, the other option is to find a wife who's even more a photo nut as you are. Personally, I've failed miserably in that respect. However, she's learned to live with my idiosyncrasies and large Olympus collection.

DJMC
24th May 2011, 11:56 AM
Ah... yes, we all have to face the boss at some point or another. My take on this is that I need three bodies, one for portrait, one for landscape and one for sports/action. So that leaves me room for an E-5 later on ;) The trick is to make sure that you spend some time taking fabulous pictures of your kids. Once she (or he) sees that, adding photo gear comes much more easily!

Of course, the other option is to find a wife who's even more a photo nut as you are. Personally, I've failed miserably in that respect. However, she's learned to live with my idiosyncrasies and accept my large Olympus collection.

My other hobby, airguns, started with one and now I have 33!!
So I must be great at BS reasons for another one!
But now of course she's saying "oh no, not another hobby!"

;)

Ian
24th May 2011, 11:57 AM
Responses in red:

That's all very clear Ian, thanks.

With the E-510 I have the three illuminating AF points but I always use the middle one to focus - just seems the right thing to do! I haven't yet got around to switching to centre AF only, which I believe is possible. Yes it is

The non-illumination of the AF points on the E-1 is not a problem but does it still 'beep' to confirm focus lock, and can I select the centre only, as I understand that AF point has sensitivity to both horizontal and vertical detail whereas the outer two points only pick up horizontal? You can select which AF point you wish to use and yes, there is a beep, and yes the centre is a cross-type sensor and the other two are not, just like in the E-510.

I tend to review photos on my PC rather than the E-510's screen but appreciate that the small size of the E-1's screen may be a problem when away from home. Having said that, how many 5MP photos can I get on a 4GB CF card!? Should be more than adequate to be able to dump the naff ones! Depends on whether you shoot RAW or JPEG. E-1 RAWs are 10MB, and JPEGs around 3MB from memory.

Flash-wise, I seem to be constantly turning off the E-510's flash in favour of a slower shutter speed but again the lack of IS on the E-1 may not be to my liking. I know the FL-36R will work on the E-1 but am I better selling this to an E-3 user, where the remote function will work between camera and flash, and buying a hot shoe only flash for the E-1? Was there a flash designed for use with the E-1 at the time it first sold, or would such an item be vastly inferior to the FL-36R? Just don't like having things with extra functionality I can't use!

Unless the FL-36 is too slow or weak for you, I'd keep it because you may well upgrade to a remote control capable body one day :)

:)

Hope the above helps!

Ian

DJMC
24th May 2011, 12:16 PM
Responses in red:

Hope the above helps!

Ian

Yes, as always!

I guess the sensible thing is to buy the E-1 kit, run it alongside the E-510 to compare, and if I find the E-1 screen or lack of IS bothers me then I stump up the other 200 to upgrade to an E-3?

Of course E-3 prices will be falling as more folks upgrade to the E-5, whereas E-1 and E-510 prices have probably levelled off somewhat, so that's to my advantage the longer I wait (about a week knowing me!). :rolleyes:

Ulfric M Douglas
24th May 2011, 01:42 PM
... someone I know will let me have their E-1 with 14-54 lens and FL-36R flash for 200 which seems a good deal!?...
That's like a "oh my goodness" good deal!
My 14-54MkI works great with both our e-410 and modernerer e-600 bodies by the way.

( It dosn't work so well on my Lumix G1 (plus adapter) and I'm assuming the MkII is better for certain m4/3rds bodies...)

StephenL
24th May 2011, 02:03 PM
I can confirm that the Mk2 focusses very well on m4/3 bodies, so if you're looking for future-proofing this is the better variant.



It dosn't work so well on my Lumix G1 (plus adapter) and I'm assuming the MkII is better for certain m4/3rds bodies...

timg
24th May 2011, 02:45 PM
someone I know will let me have their E-1 with 14-54 lens and FL-36R flash for 200 which seems a good deal!?

That's like a "oh my goodness" good deal!

That's like getting the lens for free along with a half-price flash! :D

francois
24th May 2011, 03:00 PM
Even if the 36R turned out to be the older 36, I'd buy straight away. Looking at the cheapest of the cheapest on eBay, you're talking 75-100 for the body, 175-200 for the lens and 75 (non R) to 100 (R) for the flashgun.

Melaka
24th May 2011, 05:59 PM
Hi DJMC. Do you get the impression that everyone thinks you should buy the kit. It's a steal at that price. Don't dither - I used to be indecisive too (but now I'm not so certain).

timg
24th May 2011, 08:42 PM
Do you get the impression that everyone thinks you should buy the kit. It's a steal at that price.

Indeed you should, and if you don't I'll buy it and sell if for a profit! *laugh

I'm an E510-E1 convertee and although I still have both I still find I take the E1 over the E510 in most situations... it just feels so solid and stable!

DJMC
24th May 2011, 09:57 PM
:)

I've bought it!
200 posted (he's 200 miles away).
Forgot to ask whether the lens is Mk1 or Mk2 after all that!
Who cares!!
I'll be comparing it with the E-510 body (using the 14-54 lens) and then decide if I need an E-3 instead!

What's your vote, considering I was delighted with my (no screen, no IS) OM2 in the olden days?

;)

francois
24th May 2011, 10:04 PM
You do need an E-3 ;) Well done, that was a real bargain.

Ross the fiddler
25th May 2011, 03:26 AM
:)

I've bought it!
200 posted (he's 200 miles away).
Forgot to ask whether the lens is Mk1 or Mk2 after all that!
Who cares!!
I'll be comparing it with the E-510 body (using the 14-54 lens) and then decide if I need an E-3 instead!

What's your vote, considering I was delighted with my (no screen, no IS) OM2 in the olden days?

;)

The Mk II 14-54 came out with the E30 at the end 2008 (got mine beginning of 2009 & didn't get my E30 till 2010), so you are most likely getting the Mk I (it won't say anything about Mk level on that model) that came with the E1.

Hope you have lots of fun with your purchase.

*chr

StephenL
25th May 2011, 07:52 AM
Ergonomically the E-3 isn't a patch on the E-1. Just listen to that shutter! Like the dropping of an angel's drawers! :eek:

OlyPaul
25th May 2011, 08:41 AM
Ergonomically the E-3 isn't a patch on the E-1. Just listen to that shutter! Like the dropping of an angel's drawers! :eek:

Agreed and if you like taking candid's without the gunshot sound clack of the shutter and mirror assembly that you get on the new models then it's nearly on par with a Leica for quiteness.:)

DJMC
25th May 2011, 10:34 AM
:)

I do like the E-510, don't get me wrong, but my little Casio point-and-shoot is only 6MP and I'm always down sizing images for web publishing, usually to 1200 wide, or when cropping have never struggled when starting with a 6MP image.

I also have never consciously looked at the 510 viewfinder, either to compose a shot, to check focus, or to review a photo just taken. I guess this is a throwback to my OM2, the last SLR I had, where there was no option but to think carefully about composition through the viewfinder and then click. So, at present, it's the viewfinder image which is perhaps most important to me personally so as to replicate as far as possible my OM2 view.

If I could take an OM2 and stick a digital back on it I guess I'd be happy and perhaps the E-1 is closer to this old timer (the OM2, not me!) than the E-510 or E-3? I also like the idea it was the first ground up digital DSLR, or so I've read - is that actually correct? - and so perhaps a bit of an iconic camera.

I have some old airguns from the 50s/60s which fit that same bill and are so well engineered and built they outperform anything from the modern age both in design and function, so that appeals to me IF it also turns out to be the case with the E-1.

Thinking out loud..........

I guess I could sell my E-510 & 14-42 for 200, which pays for the E-1 kit on its way, sell the FL-36R and E-1 body for say 250 and put another 150 into the pot for an E-3 body to stick the E-1's 14-54 Mk1 on along with my existing 40-150 and OM 50mm f1.4 and f1.8 lenses.

I've been offered in the last few days: a low miles E-3 body for 400; an E-30 body for 400, a 14 shots E-620 with two kit lenses and 4 1/2 year warranty for 400 (so net body cost around 300).

As I see it the E-620 is just an upgraded E-510, same-ish viewfinder, better LCD, so not very excited by this slight improvement.
Having read various comparisons between E-3 and E-30 I'd still go with the E-3 for better viewfinder and build even if it's heavier and a little behind the E-30's technologically.

I think I tend to fit the "I want it now!" brigade where I always want to get hold of whatever is regarded as 'best' in any product arena without stopping to think what features I actually need. I do recall my OM2 was perfect for my needs back then, including race car photography, but I don't have a specific need now, just general stuff - family, pets, holidays etc and taking photos of airguns for website publishing.

I guess I need to stop and take stock of the E-1 for a while to see whether its viewfinder is sufficiently reminiscent of the OM2's to keep me happy and whether my predilection toward non-flash (handy with the E-1) suffers from having no IS and its seemingly essential low ISO requirement.

Or should I really just bite the bullet and fork out just 150 net to upgrade from the E-510 to E-3 with the better 14-54 lens? When you look at it like that many of you may say it's a no-brainer but that just about doubles my original budget for a low-price return to SLR photography, bearing in mind this isn't my primary hobby. To achieve this the E-1 would have to be sold and this may be a wrench judging by so many E-1 owners who upgrade but just can't part with their E-1 for no particular reason other than 'likeability'.

I'll let you know when the E-1 arrives and what my initial thoughts of it are.

;)

francois
25th May 2011, 11:54 AM
I reckon you'll sell to go the E-3 + 14-54mm route.

If I could take an OM2 and stick a digital back on it

My dream... a digital back on my OM4-Ti! It will never happen but the idea itself makes me smile.

DJMC
25th May 2011, 12:22 PM
I reckon you'll sell to go the E-3 + 14-54mm route.

My dream... a digital back on my OM4-Ti! It will never happen but the idea itself makes me smile.

Perhaps I could pop over one Saturday and compare the E-1 to your E-3? ;)

Imagine if someone came up with a 10MP replacement back for old SLR's. It would have a CCD and a card slot and that's it. Couple of screws to replace the old back and off you go, all for 100! :)

Emailing Alan Sugar now.........

francois
25th May 2011, 01:05 PM
That is an option, but not this Saturday as I will be away most of the day. The week-end after that should be feasible. Actually, I could join you at the Kibworth range and we could try taking a few pics with both to compare.

I'm not technically competent so I have no idea as to the feasibility of creating a digital back but I have a sneaky feeling it is not that simple. Otherwise someone would have come up with an after-market solution for the best film cameras such as the OM4-Ti, the Nikon F100, Canon EOS 1v, etc.

Ian
25th May 2011, 01:36 PM
That is an option, but not this Saturday as I will be away most of the day. The week-end after that should be feasible. Actually, I could join you at the Kibworth range and we could try taking a few pics with both to compare.

I'm not technically competent so I have no idea as to the feasibility of creating a digital back but I have a sneaky feeling it is not that simple. Otherwise someone would have come up with an after-market solution for the best film cameras such as the OM4-Ti, the Nikon F100, Canon EOS 1v, etc.

A company did produce an upgrade digital back concept for film SLRs but it never reached production. Leica did a lot of work on one for its R-Series SLRs but it never reached full production.

Ian

StephenL
25th May 2011, 01:43 PM
I think the main issue with the generic design was the different distances between the film plane and the lens mount of different makes of camera.

DJMC
25th May 2011, 01:44 PM
That is an option, but not this Saturday as I will be away most of the day. The week-end after that should be feasible. Actually, I could join you at the Kibworth range and we could try taking a few pics with both to compare.

I'm not technically competent so I have no idea as to the feasibility of creating a digital back but I have a sneaky feeling it is not that simple. Otherwise someone would have come up with an after-market solution for the best film cameras such as the OM4-Ti, the Nikon F100, Canon EOS 1v, etc.

I'll let you know if I'm up to speed with the E-1 by then. It should be here tomorrow so that gives me this weekend to 'fiddle'!

;)

francois
25th May 2011, 03:42 PM
A company did produce an upgrade digital back concept for film SLRs but it never reached production.

Saying that, Photo One have made several digital backs for the Hasselblad H series. But according to Stephen's remark, they probably wouldn't recoup their costs if it had to be a digital back for a particular model of camera as opposed to generic.