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View Full Version : Polarising Filters: screw on or system?


theMusicMan
31st March 2008, 06:50 PM
Hey All

Just wondering about the use of polarising filters and thought I'd ask should I opt for a screw in type, or a 'system' type where you place the filter into a holder attached to the lens (somehow - not too sure of these).

What's the pro's and con's to each of these types of filter...?

Your thoughts and expertise greatly appreciated, thanks.

Garrie
31st March 2008, 07:03 PM
Hi John,

I have both. A Hoya screw in one and a Cokin P 'system' one.

After owning the Cokin's I'd say go for the 'system' if your planning on using ND grads as well, great for sunsets etc.

Also once you've bought the filter holder and polariser you can just buy different adaptor rings to suit different diameter lenses, meaning you don't need to buy several different diameter filters. Adaptor rings are cheap as chips.

I use the Cokin P series that allows me to use any lens diameter for 0mm to 96mm, currently I only have a 58mm adaptor ring which suits my 14 - 42 fine but when I get a 12 - 60 or 14 - 54 I can keep all the filters and just buy a bigger adaptor ring.

I hope the above helps and makes sense, I'm rubbish at explaing things.

I can take some shots of the adaptor ring, holder and filter if you like?

Cheers
Garrie

theMusicMan
31st March 2008, 07:07 PM
Yes please Garrie... cheers for the info.

Garrie
31st March 2008, 07:11 PM
nay bother, give us 25 mins to finish off these decals I'm cutting and I'll take some pics, albeit poor ones for the Cokin P System.

Cheers

yorky
31st March 2008, 07:12 PM
I think that makes a lot of sense, till now I use a screw in one but am thinking of going to a system one, the only trouble is the huge price differance? I believe Kood are bring one out which will fit the cokin zp system

Nick Temple-Fry
31st March 2008, 07:14 PM
John

If you are interested in Cokin you may find this link useful

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/main.htm

Nick

j.baker
31st March 2008, 07:16 PM
I used to use Kood P(cokin clone), but I sold all of my filters and rings when I sold my E400.

I found the bigest problem was keeping the filters clean. As they were plastic/resin I was concerned about the durability. The P series and adapter is also large. I found it was not practical to use in the field. Also, the ring filters take up less space.

brob108
31st March 2008, 07:19 PM
Hi John

Yes, I'd definitely agree with Garrie about going with the system set up. Apart from the economy of just having to buy adapter rings to go with different lens sizes I found that my screw in polariser was causing vignetting problems at the wide end of my 11 - 22mm lens when I added a ND grad filter onto the end.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Brian

j.baker
31st March 2008, 07:23 PM
7dayshop.com sell the Kood filters.

Garrie
31st March 2008, 07:25 PM
I used to use Kood P(cokin clone), but I sold all of my filters and rings when I sold my E400.

I found the bigest problem was keeping the filters clean. As they were plastic/resin I was concerned about the durability. The P series and adapter is also large. I found it was not practical to use in the field. Also, the ring filters take up less space.

I wouldn't say the P filter holder was too big.. I've used it on explores before and its permanently in my Tamrac adventure 6 which isn't a big rucksac.

I totally agree on keeping them clean though..

Garrie
31st March 2008, 07:48 PM
Hi John,

Uploaded some pics for you. The polariser is in the car but I've attached an grad to give you an idea. Polarising can be turned in its holder.

http://www.onemileahead.co.uk/themusicman/P3313708%20(Large).JPG

On the right, the holder, to the left is the adaptor ring and then a E500, below the lot is 2 cases that hold the filters when not in use.

http://www.onemileahead.co.uk/themusicman/P3313717%20(Large).JPG

rest of the pics are here http://www.onemileahead.co.uk/themusicman/

T

Sorry for the poor pics, I hate using the flash

Hope this helps
Garrie

theMusicMan
31st March 2008, 08:20 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice, and thanks Garrie for the images - certainly helps. Off now to eBay to see what goes on there... have some spare cash in my PayPal account that desperately wants to use itself for one of these systems...:)

Garrie
31st March 2008, 08:32 PM
No worries John,

Check these guys out http://www.surreyphotography.co.uk/

Thats were I got my Cokin Kit and the bonus is they take Paypal. Means your not worried about fake ebay stuff..

theMusicMan
31st March 2008, 08:34 PM
Wehey, thanks for the link Garrie, much appreciated.

OK, so if I need the following;

1 x polarising filter
1 x ND filter

... and I have the 11-22mm, 14-54mm, and 70-300mm lenses - what other gear should I buy...?

Garrie
31st March 2008, 08:36 PM
What diameter are each of those lenses John?

theMusicMan
31st March 2008, 08:40 PM
11-22mm = 72mm
14-54mm = 67mm
70-300mm = 58mm

It's the holders et al I am not sure of Garrie, thanks for the help, I guess I swallowed a 'stupid pill' for dinner... :)

Garrie
31st March 2008, 08:46 PM
Hi,

No worries..

The standard P sized holder should be sound mate..
http://www.surreyphotographyshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=115&products_id=1090

Although I would maybe consider this for the 11-22
http://www.surreyphotographyshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=115&products_id=1240
Not sure if you would get vignetting with the standard P sized holder on the 11-22 as I don't own one(wish I did though lol) Might be worth a gamble with just a standard holder.

Adaptor rings..
11-22
http://www.surreyphotographyshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=114&products_id=421
14-54
http://www.surreyphotographyshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=114&products_id=420
70 - 300
http://www.surreyphotographyshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=114&products_id=418

What ND grad you going for, The one I pictured was the ND8 P121S but I think Cokin do a set of 3 grads as a kit (121, 121M and 121S)

Cheers
G

theMusicMan
31st March 2008, 08:50 PM
Thanks again Garrie.

What ND grad you going for, The one I picturde was the ND8 P121S but I think Cokin do a set of 3 grads as a kit (121, 121M and 121S)

...errrrm.... one for a noobie!!!! *crazy

Sorry mate - I have no idea, all new to me this filter stuff... :)

ianc
31st March 2008, 09:43 PM
I wouldn't use a Cokin P with the 11-22 You will get one hell of a lot of vignetting. If memory serves me correctly any ring size over 67mm will vignette at a focal length of wider than about 22mm on fourthirds. Your options are to go for the Cokin X series, which are larger filters so less vignetting or go for a screw in for the 11-22mm and the P for the others.

Ian C.

Nick Temple-Fry
31st March 2008, 09:59 PM
I wouldn't use a Cokin P with the 11-22 You will get one hell of a lot of vignetting. If memory serves me correctly any ring size over 67mm will vignette at a focal length of wider than about 22mm on fourthirds. Your options are to go for the Cokin X series, which are larger filters so less vignetting or go for a screw in for the 11-22mm and the P for the others.

Ian C.

The P series with the wide angle holder works fine on the 11-22, the only thing is that stops you stacking filters - but does mean the filters are interchangeable with your other lenses.

Personally I'd go for the ND grad kit

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/kits.htm which includes the standard holder

then you just need the polarising filter, 3 adaptor rings and the wide angle holder.

Nick

ianc
31st March 2008, 10:06 PM
The P series with the wide angle holder works fine on the 11-22, the only thing is that stops you stacking filters - but does mean the filters are interchangeable with your other lenses.

Personally I'd go for the ND grad kit

http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/kits.htm which includes the standard holder

then you just need the polarising filter, 3 adaptor rings and the wide angle holder.

Nick

I have to admit I didn't know they were doing a W/A holder this makes the system more flexible.

Ian C.

knikki
1st April 2008, 07:57 AM
Filters, I have a Polorising screw in filter (alway look for 2nd hand, can get some nice bargins for a fraction of the price) and when mounted on top of the other lens filter I have I get a small amount of Vignetting at the 12 end of the 12-60mm lens.

As for system filters, I have used Cokin for many years, mainly for black and white, but I found that there ND Filters gave a silght colour cast on some of the films I used to use. So I stopped using them.

I now use Hitech Filters and they are mounted into either a 85mm or 100mm filter holder http://www.formatt.co.uk/stills-filters/filters/stills-filters.aspx
I don't think they are that expensive, but I think they are better than the Cokin ones. Anyway worth a look :)

Garrie
1st April 2008, 11:29 AM
I have to admit I didn't know they were doing a W/A holder this makes the system more flexible.

Ian C.

I linked it in my post under 11-22 bud ;)

HughofBardfield
1st April 2008, 11:52 AM
If you have a spare P size holder, it's also easy to cut the front couple of slots off with a Dremel (or similar). It eliminates vignetting with the 11-22mm. However, how practical it is to use a polariser with this lens varies somewhat - it becomes prone to banding at the widest end, and I often just use an ND grad.

If you're on ebay, I'd also recommend Loobylin's as a supplier ( http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Loobylins-Film-Camera-Shop ): they do both Cokin and Kood. I've found them very fast and very reliable.

If you have deep pockets, take a look at the Lee system ( http://www.leefilters.com/camera/ ). Glass rather than resin, and supposed to give superior performance and durability, but at a price! However, I've been using Cokin filters since the late 1980s, and as long as you're careful with them, they give years of use. I keep my ready use filters in a Cokin padded wallet - more convenient than the boxes.

I tend to leave the P adaptors fixed to my 11-22 and 14-54 all the time, and only take them off when I need a lens hood. I think that's the only drawback with the system filters, although I have a Cokin modular lens hood I bought years ago that I haven't used since 35mm days... Keep meaning to see if it's usable.

Sam M
1st April 2008, 02:27 PM
I've also been thinking about filter system, mainly for use of multiple filters, grads, NDs etc, so this had been some great info. However I've always had circular screw on polas, which are probably easier, more portable and I imagine cheeper...

Sam

HughofBardfield
1st April 2008, 03:37 PM
I've also been thinking about filter system, mainly for use of multiple filters, grads, NDs etc, so this had been some great info. However I've always had circular screw on polas, which are probably easier, more portable and I imagine cheeper...

Sam

Whether they would be cheaper is moot: it depends how many you need. With Cokin or Kood you need just one filter holder and one set of filters, plus one adaptor ring per lens. I can't imagine using ND grads without a Cokin or similar mount.

Sam M
1st April 2008, 05:09 PM
Cheaper, as in starting price of Hoya circular Pola from 16 (Amazon). Cokin, filters alone look like a lot more...

Sam

Invicta
1st April 2008, 05:13 PM
From my experience Cokin P series ND and ND grad filters should be avoided. They are not true neutral density and the gray colour introduces a magenta colour cast.

An example:

http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/541/thumbs/P7081187.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4397)

I do not have the funds to try several alternative filters so I am interested to find a reliable make that does not introduce a colour cast. I made a mistake buying Cokin and would not wish anybody to make the same mistake.

Sam M
1st April 2008, 06:09 PM
That (colour cast) looks extreme! I can't believe they sell them like that. (No chance you can return them?)

Sam

Invicta
1st April 2008, 06:54 PM
That (colour cast) looks extreme! I can't believe they sell them like that. (No chance you can return them?)

Sam

That is an exampe of the three stop ND, if you stack them it is even worse, the picture turns purple.

I should have sent them back, alas I bought them before going on holiday and threw away the packaging. They are not a year old so maybe I should contact Cokin direct.

theMusicMan
1st April 2008, 09:05 PM
Just to say a huge thanks to everyone for the information on this thread. What a fantastic response... super stuff folks, thanks.

yorky
2nd April 2008, 03:58 PM
I have used Cokin for awhile, just the Nat Grads and had no trouble at all with colour casts. I went over to the Zpro holders and have used Kood nat grads which arn't bad but if you need a cir. polar filter to buy one for the Zpro is astronomical. getting on for Lee prices.

theMusicMan
23rd April 2008, 09:51 AM
I find myself between meetings at a client site and as such I have just ordered the filter adapters and both holders, as well as ND2, ND4 and a Circular Polarising filter. We're away in Bude, Cornwall this weekend and so hopefully these items will be delivered to me in time for Friday morning - I can then have a play with them on the weekend.

Thanks eveyone for your help and excellent advice.

Ellie
28th April 2008, 01:07 PM
Loads of useful information already, I've learned a lot too.

The only tip I can add is that you need to take off any other filter (daylight or UV) before adding a polariser or you can really mess up your pictures.

Ian
28th April 2008, 01:11 PM
Just to say a huge thanks to everyone for the information on this thread. What a fantastic response... super stuff folks, thanks.

To answer the original question :)

Screw-in or system filters? My answer is - both :)

I'd personally go for a screw in polariser, with a good quality anti-reflective coating, but the system filters with holders are ideal for square and rectangular filters like ND grads.

Ian

shenstone
28th April 2008, 10:34 PM
To answer the original question :)

Screw-in or system filters? My answer is - both :)

I'd personally go for a screw in polariser, with a good quality anti-reflective coating, but the system filters with holders are ideal for square and rectangular filters like ND grads.

Ian

Seconded

I have to admit to rarely being bothered to carry a system any more as I can PP if I want to, but would totally be lost without my screw in CPL on sunny days I just put it on and use it all day.

Regards
Andy

ndl0071
29th April 2008, 07:03 AM
Seconded

I have to admit to rarely being bothered to carry a system any more as I can PP if I want to, but would totally be lost without my screw in CPL on sunny days I just put it on and use it all day.

Regards
Andy

Motion Carried

I agree with Andy, my Cpl (Hoya screw) is almost a permanent fixture on all of my lens whilst shooting in good light. I have to confess to being in favour of screw in filters over the slot in types which I tried a while ago but just could not get on with, I guess old habbits are hard to break.

I might add that for years now I have always screwed the Cpl on top of the UV and have not experienced any quality issues (that i've noted anyway), it simply never occured to me to remove it, I guess this stems from my 'novice' years when I was taught that the UV or skylight are lens protectors and are never removed:eek:

Cheers
Neil

elwynjones
29th April 2008, 07:54 AM
It's all a matter of opinion. From past experience, a system (Cokin P in my case) is fine for grads etc. where you would normally take things slowly and use a tripod - but a screw in polariser is convenient for travel photography etc when you need to keep your kit minimalistic.

I happen to have decided this week to buy a new polariser for my 58mm lenses

Elwyn

I'm really enjoying my relatively new E-510

steverh
29th April 2008, 08:20 AM
Does anyone have any views and/or experience of the different makes of screw-in polarisers?

Anyone using Marumi?

There is an enormous variation of prices (from about 20 to about 160 :eek: for a 72mm filter!). I guess at least some of this variation is justified...

Ian
29th April 2008, 09:08 AM
Does anyone have any views and/or experience of the different makes of screw-in polarisers?

Anyone using Marumi?

There is an enormous variation of prices (from about £20 to about £160 :eek: for a 72mm filter!). I guess at least some of this variation is justified...

My 67mm circular polariser is a Marumi - no complaints. It was inexpensive - cos I bought it in Hong Kong last year :)

The main thing is to ensure that the filter has an anti-reflection coating.

Ian

Ian
29th April 2008, 09:23 AM
Hoya is the market leader and 7DayShop sell them at attractive prices:

http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/default.php?type=0&man=0&filterwords=hoya&comp=

Ian

ndl0071
29th April 2008, 12:29 PM
Does anyone have any views and/or experience of the different makes of screw-in polarisers?

Anyone using Marumi?

There is an enormous variation of prices (from about 20 to about 160 :eek: for a 72mm filter!). I guess at least some of this variation is justified...


Over the years I have tried both ends of the market, however having been bought up with Hoya I tend to stick with these as my filter of choice one thing I have learned is that 'you get what you pay for'. I did once make the mistake of trying a cheap Cpl 1/ the thread was not complete and 2/ it made a horrible grateing noise when rotating the outer lens. Lesson learned, straight back to Hoya.

As for Marumi, well I have a grey grad which I had bought for me and it's been OK on the odd occasion that I have used it, no complaints.

Cheers
Neil

Invicta
29th April 2008, 12:42 PM
Hoya is the market leader and 7DayShop sell them at attractive prices:

http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/default.php?type=0&man=0&filterwords=hoya&comp=

Ian

And if you use step-up rings you don't need to buy so many screw in filters, just get the largest size and if there is room inside the lens hood on smaller diameter lens filter threads just get the apropriate step-up ring.