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Shaw
4th April 2011, 01:09 PM
I noticed these spots on my new E-5 whilst doing tests at F11 and above. The camera was sent to Olympus repair in Nottingham on 23rd March, and arrived back from Portugal today.

I bought my E-5 from Park Cameras in January, and it arrived in the box minus the battery charger, charger cable and battery cover, When I informed them of this, they sent another E-5 box with the missing bits plus a few more, and after a couple of days phoned me asking to return the second box as it was needed for another camera. I don't know what was going on, but I suspect that the E-5 that I got from them had perhaps been used for demo purposes.


http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/data/500/P3208475.jpg (http://e-group.uk.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/32047)

Ian
4th April 2011, 01:31 PM
That's awful service if described accurately. I don't see any reason why a new camera should have been removed from the box (or any of its accessories). If it was ex-demo you should have been told as such.

The spots definitely look like dust. The picture was taken at f/18 and the extra depth of focus has brought the dust spots out. I suspect if you used something like f/5.6 they would almost disappear. Nevertheless, do check that SSWF is working and the use of a blower may shift some of the dust, but don't use canned air or a lens brush directly on the surface behind the mirror.

If the camera has just come back from service, then assuming you can't shift the dust, I think a complaint to them is in order too.

Ian

David Morison
4th April 2011, 01:53 PM
I wonder if this only shows up at greater f numbers whether it is dust somewhere on a lens element. I say this because when I manually focus on an older lens a couple of dust specks come into focus when the subject is way out of focus but they are not visible in the final image. Another reason to suspect something like this is that whatever they are they are out of focus which had they been on the sensor surface should not have been the case. It might be worhwhile eyeballing the lens manually against a bright background (not the sun!) to see if anything is visible and perhaps check the mirror as well.

I've always wondered about Park Cameras - I now don't need to wonder any more!

David

Shaw
4th April 2011, 01:58 PM
That's awful service if described accurately. I don't see any reason why a new camera should have been removed from the box (or any of its accessories). If it was ex-demo you should have been told as such.

The spots definitely look like dust. The picture was taken at f/18 and the extra depth of focus has brought the dust spots out. I suspect if you used something like f/5.6 they would almost disappear. Nevertheless, do check that SSWF is working and the use of a blower may shift some of the dust, but don't use canned air or a lens brush directly on the surface behind the mirror.

If the camera has just come back from service, then assuming you can't shift the dust, I think a complaint to them is in order too.

Ian

Ian,

I sent it to Olympus service to have the dust removed. I didn't notice it until I tried F11 and upwards, and I sent it to Olympus because I thought there was a fault with the SSWF as the camera was very new, and I have never had problems with my E-500, E-1 or E-3. But it is now back and they have cleaned the sensor. There was no mention of whether the SSWF was faulty or not.

Ian
4th April 2011, 02:23 PM
Hehe! This thread gets more confusing by the second.

OK, so the E-5 was fixed, if I understand correctly. I still think you have grounds to complain to Park Cameras if bits were missing and they wanted you to return boxes and everything.

Presumably you had the correct warranty certificate with the correct body serial number? Did you get a special price?

Ian

DerekW
4th April 2011, 02:40 PM
I understand that the anti alias filter is thinner on the E5 so therefore any dust will be closer to the real sensor than with the E3 and hence will give more of a shadow so we might expect to see more dust with the E5 (if the dust is not being shaken loose from the filter surface)

Wee man
4th April 2011, 03:01 PM
Just to follow on surely dust on the sensor blocks light from getting to the sensor site and that pixel will show up black or dark this will not change with F stops or lenses unless the dust physically moves on the sensor surface? If it does change with F stops it must be something in front of the sensor such as dust in a lens?
I believe a sticky pad catches the dust shaken from the sensor and traps it, this needs changing with a service (not sure of time spans).

Nick Temple-Fry
4th April 2011, 03:20 PM
Just to follow on surely dust on the sensor blocks light from getting to the sensor site and that pixel will show up black or dark this will not change with F stops or lenses unless the dust physically moves on the sensor surface? If it does change with F stops it must be something in front of the sensor such as dust in a lens?
I believe a sticky pad catches the dust shaken from the sensor and traps it, this needs changing with a service (not sure of time spans).

You would be right if dust on the sensor was actually on the 'sensor', but actually it's not. In front of the sensor there are a couple of filters and it's on the first of these that the dust settles. So there is a small distance between the dust and the actual sensor sites.

Nick

Chevvyf1
4th April 2011, 03:31 PM
... In front of the sensor there are a couple of filters and it's on the first of these that the dust settles. So there is a small distance between the dust and the actual sensor sites.

Nick

Amazing I never knew this !

Jim Ford
4th April 2011, 04:09 PM
I posted a diagram a long while ago, showing how dust spots show up more clearly with smaller apertures. I can't find the thread, maybe because it was started by a user that has since left ('olyflyer') and his threads have been removed.

Jim

Ian
4th April 2011, 04:41 PM
Regarding dust on the sensor, this may seem like an incredibly stupid question but as I am relatively new to DSLR please bare with me.

If the SSWF removes the dust from the sensor where does it go ? Presumably it remains inside the camera body. If that is the case, is there not a likelyhood it will simply return onto the sensor if not removed ?

Again if that is the case how should the user go about removing any dust from inside the camera body ? Surely if a blower is used it will disturb any dust present and increase the possibility of it landing on the sensor.

John

There are some strips of sticky material to capture dust particles inside the mirror box if I recall correctly.

Ian

Ian
4th April 2011, 04:44 PM
I posted a diagram a long while ago, showing how dust spots show up more clearly with smaller apertures. I can't find the thread, maybe because it was started by a user that has since left ('olyflyer') and his threads have been removed.

Jim

Olyflyer's posts have not been deleted, although he requested I close his account. His gallery remains too.

Ian

Ian
4th April 2011, 04:48 PM
I understand that the anti alias filter is thinner on the E5 so therefore any dust will be closer to the real sensor than with the E3 and hence will give more of a shadow so we might expect to see more dust with the E5 (if the dust is not being shaken loose from the filter surface)

No that's not the case. The SSWF is actually a large circular filter, which is quite thin, that is situated in front of the low pass filter. The latter is a solid lump of glass. The E-System layout was designed with anti-dust measures in mind, locating the SSWF filter as far in front of the sensor as possible. This is the main reason why Four Thirds DSLR cameras have such a long flange back in relation the sensor size. It's impossible to design this into legacy cameras like Nikons, Pentax, Canon, Sony (Minolta), etc.

Ian

Shaw
4th April 2011, 04:53 PM
As the Exif indicates you took the photo on the 20th March, can we assume you sent the E-500 for service as a result of seeing the dust marks and it has now been returned with the problem sorted ?

John


Yes John,

The problem seems to be sorted.

Shaw
4th April 2011, 05:24 PM
As the Exif indicates you took the photo on the 20th March, can we assume you sent the E-500 for service as a result of seeing the dust marks and it has now been returned with the problem sorted ?

John

Hehe! This thread gets more confusing by the second.

OK, so the E-5 was fixed, if I understand correctly. I still think you have grounds to complain to Park Cameras if bits were missing and they wanted you to return boxes and everything.

Presumably you had the correct warranty certificate with the correct body serial number? Did you get a special price?

Ian

Yes, I got the correct warranty certificate which matched the body.
I was first offered a non-Olympus replacement charger, which I rejected, and they duly sent me a proper one in the second box. The reason that I suspect the camera had been used for demo, was that it arrived with the battery installed.

After I had received all the bits & pieces I decided against complaining, thinking it to be not worth the bother.

I paid 1499.00 which included a leather bag and a Sandisk 8GB Extreme SDHC card.

Jim Ford
4th April 2011, 06:04 PM
Olyflyer's posts have not been deleted, although he requested I close his account. His gallery remains too.

I've tried searching for threads by 'olyflyer' but I get "Invalid User specified"!

Jim

ndl0071
4th April 2011, 07:14 PM
I bought my E-5 from Park Cameras in January, and it arrived in the box minus the battery charger, charger cable and battery cover, When I informed them of this, they sent another E-5 box with the missing bits plus a few more, and after a couple of days phoned me asking to return the second box as it was needed for another camera. I don't know what was going on, but I suspect that the E-5 that I got from them had perhaps been used for demo purposes.

I'm glad to see you now have the E5 fixed and working correctly.

Regarding Park Cameras, well I've been there seen it and done it with them, I had a similar experience to you a couple of years ago, I've highlighted the thread below should you be interested.

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4638

Shaw
4th April 2011, 09:11 PM
I'm glad to see you now have the E5 fixed and working correctly.

Regarding Park Cameras, well I've been there seen it and done it with them, I had a similar experience to you a couple of years ago, I've highlighted the thread below should you be interested.

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4638

Thanks Neil

I read your thread with interest. This is the first time I have dealt with them, and they were the only dealers showing the E-5 in stock at the time.

Ian
5th April 2011, 09:47 AM
I've tried searching for threads by 'olyflyer' but I get "Invalid User specified"!

Jim

Just search for olyflyer but not for the user olyflyer.

Ian

Jim Ford
5th April 2011, 02:11 PM
Just search for olyflyer but not for the user olyflyer.


Got it - thanks Ian.

Here's the explanation I gave a while ago for why dust spots show up most with small apertures:

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5144&postcount=23

Jim

Ian
5th April 2011, 02:20 PM
Got it - thanks Ian.

Here's the explanation I gave a while ago for why dust spots show up most with small apertures:

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5144&postcount=23

Jim

Here is the diagram:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.ford60/dust.jpg

Nicely done and I think you can visualise that if the screen is moved forward away from the sensor (as it is on Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds) then the dust will be blurred more, while on legacy DSLRs the screen is closer to the sensor, making dust a bigger problem.

Ian