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Zuiko
14th September 2010, 12:54 PM
At last the long wait is over and we now know the specs of the much anticipated E-5, but is it good or bad news? There certainly seems to be a fair amount of gloom, despondency and disappointment on the forum today. Bearing in mind that this camera will almost certainly not be enough to attract new users in their droves and the main market must surely come from existing users upgrading, has Olympus dropped the ball? Were we all expecting too much? The whole situation is rather confusing and it seems that the E-System community is in turmoil, to the extent that it is hard to make an objective evaluation. Maybe it would be better to wait until the dust settles, but nevertheless here goes.

First, I think we need to view this upgrade within the wider context of DSLR development in general. I do spend some time on more general forums to get a feel of what users of other systems are thinking. There seems to be a growing acceptance by users of high end Canons and Nikons that the days of massive upgrades are over, with future improvements being incremental and evolutionary. The market for DSLRs is for the first time approaching maturity and that fact will affect all platforms and formats.

It is possible to attempt an improvement too far. For it's pro and semi-pro range Nikon has so far, with one notable and very expensive exception, settled on 12mp as being perfectly adequate. Canon, on the other hand, has gone as far as 18mp on a cropped sensor. Amongst the Canon community there is widespread praise for the construction, durability, focusing speed and accuracy, frame rate and general speed of operation of the 7D. Many, however, are less than enthusiastic about its high ISO performance and I have heard grumblings about the new 60D having 18mp with some considering that Canon may have fallen into the megapixel race trap at the expense of overall image quality. I must admit that it seems a little odd to me to put that many pixels into a consumer camera of that class. That level of resolution demands 'L' Series glass but I'm sure the majority of owners will opt for the standard 18-55mm which simply isn't good enough.

The headline news that the E-5 is “only” 12mp is no doubt a disappointment for many, particularly in the wake of speculation about a Panasonic 16mp sensor. However, in practical terms the difference between 12 and 16mp is so negligible that it can be discounted. More important is maximising resolution from those pixels and improving high ISO noise. A year ago I seem to remember we were all raving about the new Pen sensor and processor combination. People were saying “Oh, if only I could have this in an E-3!” Well, now we have, only with what should be an even better processor and better refined AA filter.

I'm excited! We can confidently anticipate significantly better resolution and sharpness at all ISO sensitivities. We should realistically find a 2 stop improvement over the E-3 at high ISO. Just think, ISO 6400 as good as ISO 1600 on the E-3! To me, that feels like Christmas and although it might only be seen as an incremental improvement I would say it is one hell of an increment!

A bigger screen with better resolution, I seem to remember this was on many wish lists and Olympus have taken note. 720 HD video is not cutting edge but it's more than adequate for most users and certainly makes the E-5 competitive in this respect. We don't know about the autofocus system yet but as it was listed as part of the new specs I read between the lines that there may well be an improvement.

Other significant improvements or new features, from my point of view, include a digital level, SD instead of XD card slot, two extra custom modes and 7 step auto bracketing. These were all commonly requested extra features or improvements and so far I don't think that Olympus has been given enough credit for providing these. Remember, these are a whole raft of improvements on what was already an excellent camera!

I do think that we are also taking for granted some real advantages of the E-System that still hold true; effective dust removal, in-body IS, articulated screen still rare on a pro spec body, unrivalled lens quality at every price point and, in the case of the E-5, quality of construction and weather sealing that matches or exceeds the very best of the competition at any price.

Looking at the total package I am impressed and more than happy, feeling that Olympus has achieved the best that could realistically be hoped for at this stage. My only quibble is the suggested price, which seems to be based more on what was current at the time of the E-3 release than on present market trends. Hopefully the street price will be a little more realistic and fall even further once early adopters have made their purchases.

The fact that the response has so far been lukewarm at best is, I think, indicative of the very real damage that rumour sites can do. Sure, all the speculation and anticipation can be rather fun, but it can unrealistically raise expectations. People who would no doubt have otherwise been perfectly happy with the E-5 sensor have been wowed by reports of 15 or 16mp with improved ISO. There were rumours of a big new innovation previously unseen in a DSLR, which of course has not happened. We even had some utter rubbish about a full frame sensor which is the very anathema of the Four Thirds principle! All this unnecessarily raises hope and expectations and is bound to lead to disappointment, however good the actual product is. That is my issue with the Rumor site.

But what of the future? Is the E-5 the ultimate we can expect or is it just a stop gap? Will the E-System wither and die, neglected in favour of Micro Four Thirds, or will it continue to be improved and developed?

These are questions that do need to be answered and I am hoping that at least some of the answers come at Photokina. I think that some of the hints that we've had from Olympus over the past year do point towards an eventual merge of Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds. That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view. From my perspective I find it exciting and give it a cautious welcome. Why cautious? Well, it does need to be done properly and very much depends on waiting until EVF technology is as good as an optical finder. Then it needs to be incorporated into a body very similar to the E-3/E-5 with the same sort of size and quality of construction. The operation of the existing E-System lens range needs to be as effective on such a camera as it is on the existing conventional bodies. Providing that can be achieved I think the future is very bright and exciting indeed. Bring it on!

In the meantime, I think that the E-5 is a wonderful camera that I would love to own. In some respects it will never perform quite as well as rivals from other manufacturers but that has always been the case with the E-System. On the other hand it maintains the advantages of the E-System, of which there are many and which attracted me to Olympus in the first place. I probably won't be getting one, at least not in the near future, but that is due purely to my financial situation and is no reflection on the camera. In fact if I had £1500 to spare I'd be on the phone today to place an advance order!

steverh
14th September 2010, 01:44 PM
I agree with John.

I bought into the E system because Oly had no legacy AF film camera users to worry about and could design the system from scratch for the digital age. The classic example of that is the dust removal system. Dust is not an issue for most of us: the Arctic Butterfly sensor brush belonging to my club is in constant demand by users of other makes.

Another example - IS in the camera, not the lens so that even third-party MF lenses can benefit from it. Let's face it, the only reason Canikon still do it in the lenses is because of their film heritage, where it was the only way you could.

The digital SLR is on borrowed time. As soon as really good electronic eye level finders are developed, the whole mirror/prism thing will be obsolete. And Oly will be at the front of the movement. The merging of 4/3 and micro 4/3 sounds very exciting.

Until then, our E-3s, E-30s and the rest will go on being excellent photographic tools with fantastic glassware. Let's face it, the utterly obsolescent E-1 is still an excellent tool within its limitations - see http://www.flickr.com/groups/e-1 for proof!

There is a saying that the contributions to a good photo are 5% from the camera body, 25% from the lens and 70% from the light and the photographer - or something like that - I am sure someone can put me right!

theMusicMan
14th September 2010, 02:07 PM
There is a saying that the contributions to a good photo are 5% from the camera body, 25% from the lens and 70% from the light and the photographer - or something like that - I am sure someone can put me right!

Photography is all about the light: the human eye to see it, the ability of the camera and lens to capture it, the techincal skill of the brain to process it... and the artistic ability of the photographer to pull all of this together.
me. Sept 2010

:)

Nick Temple-Fry
14th September 2010, 02:12 PM
Well if it's RIP then I think it'll be a very unquite grave.

Actually I can see many commentators happily celebrating at the wake, telling us that they told you so; and poor thing the strain of trying to be 'professional' was just too much of an Olympian effort, we all saw it coming, very sad.

As they slowly slump to the floor (or for the sake of Ian, bounce off the walls in a frantic sugar induced soft drink high) there will be a hammering at the coffin lid. Perceptions will be splintered. Back from beyond the grave, Olympus will stand tall.

Because the SLR is an exhausted concept, there is no intrinsic merit is having a mirror flapping about in the optical path, it was just an ingenious solution to the technical problem of giving a through lens viewfinder. It had drawbacks, weight was added to the camera, size and complexity; the image had to be composed with the aperture opened to provide enough light, then the photographer took a guess at the actual dof.

What's surprising is that the SLR has remained the solution for so long.

So where does this put Olympus. Well they've signalled strongly that they will move to EVF. They have a reputation for producing high quality solutions to problems, they have a history of producing very well made products. And there is a commitment to providing compatibility with the existing glass.

If Olympus is convinced that it can drive forward the evf and focussing system to equal/exceed the OVF then I suspect they can. And in a reasonable time frame. Their engineers will know all the well rehearsed arguments as to why it can't be done, so they will have a clearly defined set of objectives to work to.

If it needs a bigger body to handle the longer glass (and keep in mind that the Sigma 135-400 is quite comfortable on the Pen's), well a slightly extended battery holder (and think of all the battery space that will give) is really not going to tax the engineers capabilities.


So where does it leave the E-5. A well proven sensor, in camera engine that is a development on one that has already shown its capabilities. It will be well made, it will be durable. Sounds like a pretty good combination. We just need some pictures/stats to demonstrate this.

Of course we'd have liked more, or course we'd have liked a killer camera that would have everyone envying us. But the paradigm shift isn't going to be an SLR camera, Olympus isn't aiming to be last king of the DSLR kingdom.

Olympus has set its eyes onto a new land, it seems to be wanting to beat a broad enough path to it so that we all can carry our legacy SLR lenses along the way.

I think we have a lot to hope for.

Nick

yorky
14th September 2010, 02:26 PM
Well now, this upgrade is just about what I expected, I can't see what more we could have wanted. Video, well if that's what you want surely a customised video camera is the answer! I have an EP 2, I have never felt the need to use the video aspect of it, but what I have found is that for 85% of the time this is now my camera of choice, Its lighter and does most things just as well as my E3, I don't care for it if wanting to photograph moving objects-trains etc and I don't think it would be ideal for sporting subjects.
The new E5 has addressed its biggest failing (in my opinion) the screen definition, which to me, that was the E 3s biggest fault. as for the price, well the E3 was over a thousand when it came out, then it went into the £900 s and hasn't really dropped that much yet. The quality at higher iso s seems to have been upgraded which it did need but then so has the EP 2, I believe it to be much better than the E3. Will I be buying one, very doubtful, why would I need to. One thing though I will not be changing to Canikons where there is a new model (so called) every other week and lets face it, our lenses are better than theirs.

Ian
14th September 2010, 03:33 PM
Well now, this upgrade is just about what I expected, I can't see what more we could have wanted. Video, well if that's what you want surely a customised video camera is the answer! I have an EP 2, I have never felt the need to use the video aspect of it, but what I have found is that for 85% of the time this is now my camera of choice, Its lighter and does most things just as well as my E3, I don't care for it if wanting to photograph moving objects-trains etc and I don't think it would be ideal for sporting subjects.
The new E5 has addressed its biggest failing (in my opinion) the screen definition, which to me, that was the E 3s biggest fault. as for the price, well the E3 was over a thousand when it came out, then it went into the £900 s and hasn't really dropped that much yet. The quality at higher iso s seems to have been upgraded which it did need but then so has the EP 2, I believe it to be much better than the E3. Will I be buying one, very doubtful, why would I need to. One thing though I will not be changing to Canikons where there is a new model (so called) every other week and lets face it, our lenses are better than theirs.

I agree - I'm, using Pens a lot and at Photokina I will only take a Pen E-P2 with the 14-150 and 9-18.

But if you want to use big heavy lenses, and in inclement weather or dusty conditions, a bigger, sturdier, and sealed camera is what you need. The question is, will Micro Four Thirds evolve in that direction? In the mean time, the E-5 doesn't look so bad.

Ian

shenstone
14th September 2010, 05:36 PM
Not as company, but for our type of photography using this type of kit quite possibly in the long term

The simple fact is that there are a lot of people out there who like the SLR format camera and don't want a pen format. Other companies see this and have solidified marketshare and continue to develop in the SLR format.

I like many of the things in this new camera, size and cost being the 2 items I'm not keen on, and I would like to continue to use a system that is frankly better than I am.

I see quotes on forums that there will always be a body to take our lenses and I really hope so, but I just don't like using the rear screen to take a picture and holding the camera in front of me, and evf have an awful long way to go to be as good as even my E-500's viewfinder

So in summary I hope not.. time will tell

Regards
Andy

fitheach
14th September 2010, 05:56 PM
but I just don't like using the rear screen to take a picture and holding the camera in front of me

+1 on that comment. If Olympus move to having EVF on all their models they will lose me as a customer. On rare occasions I will use the screen for critical focusing on macro subjects (with seven times zoom) but otherwise I much prefer an optical viewfinder. If Olympus want to expend some R'n'D effort they could make the optical viewfinder bigger, brighter and cover 100% of the image area. EVF will just consume the battery faster.

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 06:15 PM
Well if it's RIP then I think it'll be a very unquite grave.

Actually I can see many commentators happily celebrating at the wake, telling us that they told you so; and poor thing the strain of trying to be 'professional' was just too much of an Olympian effort, we all saw it coming, very sad.

As they slowly slump to the floor (or for the sake of Ian, bounce off the walls in a frantic sugar induced soft drink high) there will be a hammering at the coffin lid. Perceptions will be splintered. Back from beyond the grave, Olympus will stand tall.

Because the SLR is an exhausted concept, there is no intrinsic merit is having a mirror flapping about in the optical path, it was just an ingenious solution to the technical problem of giving a through lens viewfinder. It had drawbacks, weight was added to the camera, size and complexity; the image had to be composed with the aperture opened to provide enough light, then the photographer took a guess at the actual dof.

What's surprising is that the SLR has remained the solution for so long.

So where does this put Olympus. Well they've signalled strongly that they will move to EVF. They have a reputation for producing high quality solutions to problems, they have a history of producing very well made products. And there is a commitment to providing compatibility with the existing glass.

If Olympus is convinced that it can drive forward the evf and focussing system to equal/exceed the OVF then I suspect they can. And in a reasonable time frame. Their engineers will know all the well rehearsed arguments as to why it can't be done, so they will have a clearly defined set of objectives to work to.

If it needs a bigger body to handle the longer glass (and keep in mind that the Sigma 135-400 is quite comfortable on the Pen's), well a slightly extended battery holder (and think of all the battery space that will give) is really not going to tax the engineers capabilities.


So where does it leave the E-5. A well proven sensor, in camera engine that is a development on one that has already shown its capabilities. It will be well made, it will be durable. Sounds like a pretty good combination. We just need some pictures/stats to demonstrate this.

Of course we'd have liked more, or course we'd have liked a killer camera that would have everyone envying us. But the paradigm shift isn't going to be an SLR camera, Olympus isn't aiming to be last king of the DSLR kingdom.

Olympus has set its eyes onto a new land, it seems to be wanting to beat a broad enough path to it so that we all can carry our legacy SLR lenses along the way.

I think we have a lot to hope for.

Nick

Spot on, Nick, you and I think alike! :)

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 06:22 PM
+1 on that comment. If Olympus move to having EVF on all their models they will lose me as a customer. On rare occasions I will use the screen for critical focusing on macro subjects (with seven times zoom) but otherwise I much prefer an optical viewfinder. If Olympus want to expend some R'n'D effort they could make the optical viewfinder bigger, brighter and cover 100% of the image area. EVF will just consume the battery faster.

On the E-3/E-5 the optical finder is already bigger, brighter and has 100% coverage. You reject the EVF solution now, based on the quality currently available, but would you still reject it in the future if EVF technology equals or surpasses the very best optical system?

petrovich
14th September 2010, 06:25 PM
I can only re iterate the words of Nick T-F.


Regards

fitheach
14th September 2010, 06:56 PM
On the E-3/E-5 the optical finder is already bigger, brighter and has 100% coverage.


I don't have an E-3. Maybe if the E-3 owners all rush out to buy E-5s I can buy one cheap secondhand ;) Judging by the majority comments on this forum that doesn't look likely.


You reject the EVF solution now, based on the quality currently available, but would you still reject it in the future if EVF technology equals or surpasses the very best optical system?

I reject EVF now mainly because of the process not the quality of the screen. I like looking through a viewfinder. For some things, like macro focusing, I like the liveview but I wouldn't want to have to use it all the time. I find holding the camera to my face has a stabilising effect whereas holding the camera 30cm away from me is more awkward.

However, I can see that EVF will happen as the majority of new users will have been "weaned" on that technique with compact cameras.

steverh
14th September 2010, 07:21 PM
I reject EVF now mainly because of the process not the quality of the screen. I like looking through a viewfinder. For some things, like macro focusing, I like the liveview but I wouldn't want to have to use it all the time. I find holding the camera to my face has a stabilising effect whereas holding the camera 30cm away from me is more awkward.

However, I can see that EVF will happen as the majority of new users will have been "weaned" on that technique with compact cameras.

The EVFs we are all waiting for will be used at eye level, like a conventional DSLR. Some cameras have already been made with them, but the technology is not quite there yet - they still need improvements in resolution and response time. The Panasonic DMC G2 is pretty close - see http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_g2_review

I reckon Oly must be quite close to releasing a similar camera that will take standard 4/3 lenses...

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 07:52 PM
I don't have an E-3. Maybe if the E-3 owners all rush out to buy E-5s I can buy one cheap secondhand ;) Judging by the majority comments on this forum that doesn't look likely.



I reject EVF now mainly because of the process not the quality of the screen. I like looking through a viewfinder. For some things, like macro focusing, I like the liveview but I wouldn't want to have to use it all the time. I find holding the camera to my face has a stabilising effect whereas holding the camera 30cm away from me is more awkward.

However, I can see that EVF will happen as the majority of new users will have been "weaned" on that technique with compact cameras.

I'm talking about viewing by EVF, not rear sreen. With an EVF you hold the camera to your face and look through the eyepiece just the same as with an optical finder, only the image you see is electronic rather than optical. For me, the crux is when they can get this electronic image as good as an optical one. :)

Whoops, I see that Steve has already posted pretty much the same reply.

Nick Temple-Fry
14th September 2010, 08:07 PM
I reject EVF now mainly because of the process not the quality of the screen. I like looking through a viewfinder. For some things, like macro focusing, I like the liveview but I wouldn't want to have to use it all the time. I find holding the camera to my face has a stabilising effect whereas holding the camera 30cm away from me is more awkward.



Steveh is right, evf technology is moving on. Olympus already has the vf-2 which is perfectly good for most purposes, not yet my choice for macro/insects and wouldn't be my favourite for sports, but it's pretty close.

Getting the focus system to be as speedy/responsive and getting it to drive the SLR glass better will probably be a bigger challenge. But it's a 'known' problem so we can be confident that Olympus have ideas about how to resolve it.

I really don't think we can judge the technology until we see the camera.

The PEN series is a great testing ground for new technology before it goes into the 'professional' camera.

Lets wait and see how this all develops, it could be good.

Meanwhile there is nothing stopping us taking pictures with what we've got.

Nick

fitheach
14th September 2010, 08:12 PM
The Panasonic DMC G2 is pretty close

Interesting review - I hadn't seen that before. However, what advantage does the EVF give you as a user? That review mentions removing the bulky optical viewfinder and mechanism but to what end. I think the Olys are small enough already. No doubt Olympus are thinking of all the extra gimmicks they can pack-in to attract a few more users. My optical viewfinder gives me flicker free images already and I can look through it without switching the camera on ;)

The touchscreen, on the other hand, I could see being useful. A faster way of navigating menus, a nifty way of selecting autofocus area or zooming-in on images. I would just worry about the longevity of the touchscreen.

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 08:13 PM
Meanwhile there is nothing stopping us taking pictures with what we've got.

Nick

Amongst all the hype it's easy to lose sight of that! *yes

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 08:20 PM
Interesting review - I hadn't seen that before. However, what advantage does the EVF give you as a user? That review mentions removing the bulky optical viewfinder and mechanism but to what end. I think the Olys are small enough already. No doubt Olympus are thinking of all the extra gimmicks they can pack-in to attract a few more users. My optical viewfinder gives me flicker free images already and I can look through it without switching the camera on ;)

The touchscreen, on the other hand, I could see being useful. A faster way of navigating menus, a nifty way of selecting autofocus area or zooming-in on images. I would just worry about the longevity of the touchscreen.

But you do have an antequated mirror banging and slapping around. If Olympus can get mirrorless technology right it opens the door to much faster frame rates and sensor tilt and shift, to name just two possibilities. :)

Nick Temple-Fry
14th September 2010, 08:31 PM
Interesting review - I hadn't seen that before. However, what advantage does the EVF give you as a user? That review mentions removing the bulky optical viewfinder and mechanism but to what end. I think the Olys are small enough already. No doubt Olympus are thinking of all the extra gimmicks they can pack-in to attract a few more users. My optical viewfinder gives me flicker free images already and I can look through it without switching the camera on ;)

The touchscreen, on the other hand, I could see being useful. A faster way of navigating menus, a nifty way of selecting autofocus area or zooming-in on images. I would just worry about the longevity of the touchscreen.

Interesting about what we like, and what we dont.

To me the touchscreen is just a pointless gimmick and I can't see how to use it with the camera held to my eye. Whereas I can quite happily move focus points whilst composing a shot using the buttons on the E-3 or the E-PL1. (Indeed my E-3 macro shots frequently have had the focus point moved whilst watching the insect through the viewfinder).

On the E-PL1 I can throw the super control panel up onto the vf-2, superimposed on the image (albeit too brightly), make the adjustments to setting with my thumb and then take the picture, all without lowering the camera.

We've all got different demands/requirements. Makes it interesting to see how Olympus will meet them.

One thing the evf does/can give is an end to the nonsense of composing the image with the lens wide open, guessing the dof and then taking the shot (or fiddling about with dof preview). Perhaps we can even get the aperture ring back to where it should be on the lens.

I'm not suggesting the evf is ready yet, but it's come a long way. Maybe we should give it a chance.

Nick

snag2000
14th September 2010, 08:37 PM
All valid points. But having mulled it over, I don't think that's really the issue.

A relatively small amount of the user bade of a system will use the top-end product - I certainly don't own an E-3 and would find it hard to justify paying double or more over the base or mid-range camera for what will amount, for the majority of people, to be relatively minor advantages in real world shooting.

The main purpose for top-end equipment, not just in cameras, is as a 'halo' product to give prestige to lower end products or give the user something to aspire to. Entry level Canikons aren't a whole lot different to the equivalent Olys, but it certainly helps their cause that nearly every pro uses a 1d or D3 or whatever.

The real problem with the E-5 announcement is that it doesn't seem to offer anything blinding to aspire to (certainly not for £1500) and seems to be about 18 months behind the curve of its competition. If that's the situation for the big gun, what hope is there for the rest of the range?

I have no problem with my equipment (E-520) or the pictures it (or rather, I) take. The problem is that it puts doubts into the mind of people about the system - so they have doubts about upgrading or investing money in lenses or flashes etc. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, because if the doubt causes people to stop spending on the system, then the company stops making so much cash on it and sees less and less reason to keep supporting it.

That's the problem.

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 08:55 PM
All valid points. But having mulled it over, I don't think that's really the issue.

A relatively small amount of the user bade of a system will use the top-end product - I certainly don't own an E-3 and would find it hard to justify paying double or more over the base or mid-range camera for what will amount, for the majority of people, to be relatively minor advantages in real world shooting.

The main purpose for top-end equipment, not just in cameras, is as a 'halo' product to give prestige to lower end products or give the user something to aspire to. Entry level Canikons aren't a whole lot different to the equivalent Olys, but it certainly helps their cause that nearly every pro uses a 1d or D3 or whatever.

The real problem with the E-5 announcement is that it doesn't seem to offer anything blinding to aspire to (certainly not for £1500) and seems to be about 18 months behind the curve of its competition. If that's the situation for the big gun, what hope is there for the rest of the range?

I have no problem with my equipment (E-520) or the pictures it (or rather, I) take. The problem is that it puts doubts into the mind of people about the system - so they have doubts about upgrading or investing money in lenses or flashes etc. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, because if the doubt causes people to stop spending on the system, then the company stops making so much cash on it and sees less and less reason to keep supporting it.

That's the problem.

That's why I'm trying so hard to convince people of the merits of what I see as a very positive and worth waiting for upgrade. I do agree about the price, that's the only fly in the ointment for me, but I'm sure it will come down to a more realistic level, if only because dictated by market forces. :)

Zuiko
14th September 2010, 08:57 PM
Perhaps we can even get the aperture ring back to where it should be on the lens.

Nick

Nice idea, but not a chance! *laugh

shenstone
14th September 2010, 09:09 PM
That's why I'm trying so hard to convince people of the merits of what I see as a very positive and worth waiting for upgrade. I do agree about the price, that's the only fly in the ointment for me, but I'm sure it will come down to a more realistic level, if only because dictated by market forces. :)

I do agree with this... Price is important which is why they need to put out the e-40, e430, e-530 and e630. What the range gives, is the option for people to get into the system at whatever price point suits them and start buying lenses.

This E-5 will have more than enough capability for 99.9% of people who would use it (me included) and as long as the same image processor is in the other models people would use it. Little to no other R&D costs needed.

I had someone at work the other day ask my advice and I honestly struggled to advice them to get Olympus because as a new DSLR user there was so much at a similar capability but a lot cheaper because other firms are getting the benefits of bulk manufacturing

Come on Oly - bash out more models and keep in the headines we want to belive :D

Regards
Andy

Jim Ford
14th September 2010, 10:08 PM
I don't think that the incremental changes of the E5 over the E3 are going to bring photographers flocking to 4/3rds. Olympus had three years to bring out a camera that would blow the opposition out of the water, but they let the opportunity pass. Shame really - Olympus have been good at innovation in the past. Because of this, Olympus will remain a minority marque, with a steady trickle of owners switching to other brands. I'm not planning of switching though!

Jim

yorky
14th September 2010, 10:52 PM
Well the Olympus range has really always been a minortity camera. could it possibily market itself as the thinking mans camera? The quality of the lenses has aways been its best selling point. The e5 will have many detractors but for a good all weather camera it will take a lot of beating. My point is, do we all really need this! The ep 2 has its faults but it is also a adapable camera which can give the results, The E3/E5 can do the same in any condition, some of which the EP2 would falter, neither is perfect, but horses for courses. I certainly won't be upgrading to an E5 in the very near future. But it does seem to me to be the logical progression, not to many bells and whistles but keeping its brand there.

R MacE
15th September 2010, 10:03 AM
I bought the E-3 as soon as it was available and in many respects apart from build quality it was a major step forward from my E-1 but given the timescale it needed to be. Frankly no matter how you dress it up the E-5 is dissapointing, not because it isn't a step up from the E-3 but because for one thing it took too long, secondly as a Flagship camera it needs to improve in every respect the performance of all that has gone before not simply be a composite of all that came after it's predecessor.

The biggest problem with the E-5 isn't the camera as such but a Flagship is a signpost to what we can expect in future and if it's merely a warmed up E-3 that was 3 years in the making then things don't look too rosy. That isn't to say that 4/3rds will die off but it's definitely not the way to attract new users and the E-System will suffer from lack of development if it sells only to the existing users base. Lets face it they've still left a few gaps in the lens range.

Everyone says that it isn't all about the camera, that there are those taking award winng shots with lesser cameras and of course this is true but it's a 2 edged sword, you can't on the one hand claim that in the right hands an E-5 is a perfectly capable camera, just as good as anything the others have to offer and then justify the cost over something like an E-420. I actually haven't used my E-3 for ages and haven't as yet had the screen repaired as I now use an E-420 which to all intents and purposes does everything the E-3does at a fraction of the weight and cost.

On the other threads about the E-5 the well known rumour site is blamed for raising expectations, thats rubbish to be honest, there was a similar amount of speculation prior to the E-3 and prior to m4/3rds and the rumour site didn't even exist. The speculation prior to the m4/3 launch was just as unrealistic and I posted at the time that people weren't listening to what Olympus were saying and instead were working themselves into a frenzy with nothing to support what they expected to see, as it turned out m4/3rds was exactly what Olympus said it would be, a product aimed at those considering switching to a DSLR but put off by the complexities of a DSLR, that suggested a a compact with a bigger sensor and interchangeable lenses, not a hi spec DSLR in a compact package.

I for one would be delighted if Olympus developed the m4/3rds line to include a high end body with EVF and splashproofing but even with the Pen line they're falling way behind Panasonic's offerings in areas like AF performance.

I'm sure the E-5 is a good enough camera but it's much less than current users were entitled to expect after waiting so long, it only just managed to make an appearance in less time than the E-3 did and weren't we told we'd never be expected to wait as long as we did for the E-3? It looks like a stop gap until they have something to talk about and IMO the underlying message is that the E-System as we know it is on borrowed time, especially when there are doubt's about an upgrade E-620 and no replacement to the now discontinued E-30.

My mate who had been using an E-510 had been waiting patiently for the E-3 replacement and had been looking at the rumours but I warned him not to expect anything groundbreaking, certainly not as dramatic as the rumours suggested. To be perfectly frank unless you were under the influence of mind bending substances it should have been perfectly clear that the E-5 wasn't going to deviate radically from the existing format. In the end he bought a Nikon D700 and to be honest I don't blame him, I'm sure he isn't sitting devastated right now wishing he'd waited on the E-5.

Makonde
15th September 2010, 10:57 AM
I'm going to upgrade from the 520 to the E5 as soon as the latter is available in this country. It looks like a very sensible upgrade.

But I'm not going to buy any more 4/3 lenses. In five years' time, when the micro system is more mature with a range of fast lenses (and maybe weatherproofing?) to match, it will be time to switch to that - or some other system.

It is pretty clear that Olympus have for the forseeable future abandoned any notion of a top professional 'flagship' camera and are putting all their powers into developing MFT.

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Olympus_E5_The_last_Four_Thirds_DSLR_camera_news_3 01801.html

fitheach
15th September 2010, 11:05 AM
It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, because if the doubt causes people to stop spending on the system, then the company stops making so much cash on it and sees less and less reason to keep supporting it.

That's the problem.

Yup!

This might sound like heresy on this forum but I don't really care if Olympus beat Canon and Nikon in the market or not. Just like every other company Olympus aim to be profitable and if that meant dropping DSLRs they would do it. If Oly were to pull-out of the market it would curtail my ability to upgrade and extend my small collection of E-series cameras and lenses - so, for that reason I hope the E-5 is successful.

Some of the features of the E-5 are attractive, to me, but that attractiveness doesn't extend to £1,500. If Nikon or Canon release a new model they will sell lots of them because they are considered the default options. For Olympus to sell lots they need to create some buzz, as they did with microFT, but it doesn't look like that will happen with the E-5. However, even Nikon and Canon are looking for the next feature that will generate some buzz because that will make the difference between selling lots and shed-loads. I just find these features are rarely things I need or want.

My ideal would be something like a digital OM4 with water and dust proofing, largish rear screen, plenty of physical buttons to access the main settings, real manual focusing and an aperture ring on the lens (it's not just Nick). The ability to upgrade the sensor and user programmable firmware would be nice too. It is just a shame it will never happen (from any of the manufacturers). This (http://www.reghardware.com/2010/04/16/review_camera_hasselblad_cfv_39_digital_back/) comes close but I neither have £10,000 or an old Hasselblad lying around.

jalanb
15th September 2010, 11:59 AM
Eloquently said everybody.

As a relative DSLR newcomer, but long term Olympus suppporter, I can now understand where we think Olympus are going and see some logic in it.

My main concern is that there will contine to be an appropriate camera body with an eye level viewfinder based on the best technology available at the time, to couple with the E System 4/3 lenses. This appears to be a reasonable assumption.

Alan

roadkill_6mm
15th September 2010, 12:22 PM
It's true to say that the on paper stats of the E-5 don't set the world on fire. Personally I'll reserve judgement until there have been proper reviews and we get to actually see how it performs, particularly at high iso.
I would say the problem for Oly though is the unfortunate fact that stats sell cameras.

Personally the price is waay too much for me to justify spending on it just yet. However I have been following with great interest to see where oly are going. Like most I'm not exactly blown away, but as I said will reserve judgement until actual pics.

I must admit I've spent quite a lot on Zuiko glass, and I'm in no great hurry to jump ship - I've priced up other systems and for the same quailty lenses we're talking money way beyond my budget. I came from using a bridge camera with an evf, which I didn't like one bit-I found it impossible to manual focus and when shooting in burst mode the pause between frames was too long. Having said that I quite liked using the rear screen to frame and shoot, one of the advantages of this (and the evf) is the ability to have all sorts of information on the screen to help. For me I loved having a grid displayed so I could line up the horizonal with the horizon.

I'm quite happy with oly, if things do go south regards the e-system I think I'll probably just fall back to the PEN so I can keep using the excellent lenses.

Regards

Neil

DavidJ1609
3rd October 2010, 04:56 PM
Well the Olympus range has really always been a minortity camera. could it possibily market itself as the thinking mans camera?

I was thinking about this the other day. Marketing to their strengths as a serious tool for taking photographs, not a badge to be worn around your neck.

I don't thnk they have much of a budget, so can't compete pound for pound.

An advert with perhaps a bloke in the shop saying "Which one has the most megapixels etc. etc." with a large camera already round his neck with a ridiculously large lens and flash...while the Olympus buyer just pays and leaves, and we see him taking great photos - perhaps with some known names in the industry who shoot Olympus and related brands.

Simply "People who buy Olympus know what they're buying".

David.
Disclaimer. I'm usually wrong about most things for which I'm not qualified; which is most things. :D

Nick Temple-Fry
3rd October 2010, 05:04 PM
I was thinking about this the other day. Marketing to their strengths as a serious tool for taking photographs, not a badge to be worn around your neck.

I don't thnk they have much of a budget, so can't compete pound for pound.

An advert with perhaps a bloke in the shop saying "Which one has the most megapixels etc. etc." with a large camera already round his neck with a ridiculously large lens and flash...while the Olympus buyer just pays and leaves, and we see him taking great photos - perhaps with some known names in the industry who shoot Olympus and related brands.

Simply "People who buy Olympus know what they're buying".

David.
Disclaimer. I'm usually wrong about most things for which I'm not qualified; which is most things. :D

High pixel count, that's one for every raindrop that stops you using your camera.

Talk to Olympus, we care about the picture - not the raindrops or the pixels.

Nick

Zuiko
3rd October 2010, 08:38 PM
High pixel count, that's one for every raindrop that stops you using your camera.

Talk to Olympus, we care about the picture - not the raindrops or the pixels.

Nick

Or how about Chris Bonington (a long established Olympus user) taking a photo with the E-5 on a mountain summit in torrential rain?

........."Trust Olympus to leave you high and dry."

DavidJ1609
4th October 2010, 02:57 AM
........."Trust Olympus to leave you high and dry."

Ouch! *super

David.

OlyPaul
4th October 2010, 09:14 AM
LOL, you walked into that one John! :D